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Sweden Is a NATO Member

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Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#331

Post by ethbr1 »

SllX wrote: post #239
malermeister wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the person you responded to, but I agree that the EU needs a bit more independence from the US. To me, it's mostly about being able to stand up for ourselves on a world stage - ideally through a common EU military that is strong enough to deter adversaries even without US support. My main reason is the instability of the American political climate and the way every four years there's an election between a centris…

Speaking as an American I want this for the EU as well. I liked the prior world order, but I think the dream of keeping it alive died when our current dumbass-in-chief pulled out of Afghanistan in the stupidest way possible. The previous dumbass-in-chief who may well be the next dumbass-in-chief if the current one loses also abandoned our Kurdish allies and is promising to do worse than that. Also, I like Europe. I d…

To be fair, abandoning our Kurdish allies (and before them, our Hmong allies) is an ongoing American theme.

I had a good Kurdish friend who came over on a US carrier after we abandoned them after the Gulf War...

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#332

Post by pavlov »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #299
pavlov wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU countries including Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and eastern Poland have been part of the Russian nation at some point since “ancient Rus”. What makes you think Putin doesn’t want them back? Kaliningrad sits there right in the middle of EU and NATO. That’s got to sting him. Trump’s second term will be his ticket to take a stab at fixing this geopolitical blemish, the mote in the Eastern god’s eye.

I don't know, do you see Germany trying to reclaim territory right now? Is Austria laying claim to Hungary? What kind of argument is this?

If you haven't noticed, Russia is actively reclaiming territory it claims as historically Russian. Why does it stop at Ukraine?

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#333

Post by repelsteeltje »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #264
repelsteeltje wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. You seem to know your stuff and have thought this through. So, I was hoping to solicit your opinion on where you think Kaliningrad will be in a couple of years? (Say 5) It probably won't be called "Koningsberg", but would you say it's probable it will become independent? Part of Lithuania, Poland? Or will it remain firmly Russian and (economically) isolated? Curious to hear your thoughts.

Many [though not enough] people in K̶a̶l̶i̶n̶i̶n̶g̶r̶a̶d̶ Królewiec consider themselves more European than russian. The optimistic view is that sooner or later they'll get their way. Perhaps with putler's death they might.

Thank you.

That rhymes with the sentiment I gauged (anecdotally) from (West) Ukrainians, Belarusians and even some folk in St Petersburg.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#334

Post by whatshisface »

ProjectArcturis wrote: post #161
jajko wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its funny with Hungary, Orban is such an incompetent ruler that currently Hungary is paying way above market prices for gas from Russia. So much for being friends with benefits with russia. You can see how it all is a series of really not that smart moves for Hungary for a long time, borderline treason. And one point generally - please lets stop calling whats happening in Ukraine in any other way than War. putin's wa…

This comment really illustrates the hollowness of the "NATO expanded too aggressively" claim. NATO didn't force any of these ex-Soviet countries to join. They ran to join NATO as soon as they could. They'd experienced living with the Russian boot on their neck, and they were eager to join a collective security organization to prevent it from ever happening again.

I really never understood how this statement and "NATO expanded to aggressively" were seen as contradictory. Putin's government wants to put the boot on Russia's neighbors, and NATO was in the process of taking that option away from them, and that's why they committed to war. They're not lying about their motivations, they are phrasing them in head-of-state speak. The same goes for denazification, which is thinly veiled code for intervening in who's allowed to govern Ukraine.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#336

Post by chasd00 »

api wrote: post #222

Irony: NATO maybe was considered of questionable necessity before Putin invaded Ukraine to supposedly contain NATO, which ended up being a gigantic ad for NATO. Now it's on track to become the de-facto EU military. Putin is yet another fabulous counterexample for the anti-democracy crowd. He spent hundreds of thousands of Russian lives, hundreds of billions, tons of military hardware, and incurred sanctions to earn..…

> Absolutely massive own-goal.

never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#337

Post by apienx »

The largest country on Earth murders people for merely expression an opinion and a massive chunk of our planet's geological wealth is funneled to fund wars of aggression.

This sovereign decision is in perfect alignment with Sweden's value and security needs. Yet, that the decision involved kissing the rings of other no-good men (Erdogan and Orban) tells me we need a paradigm shift.

Is it legal to crowdfund Putin's early retirement? I'm sure there's a number that will guarantee getting him out of office. Asking for a friend. ;-)

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#338

Post by unethical_ban »

tharmas wrote: post #306
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

I'm told by maps that Crimea, Donbas and Donetsk regions are part of a nation called Ukraine, and Russia sent tanks, jets and bombs to destroy cities against the wishes of the government of Ukraine.

That's what is known in international diplomacy as a "dick move".

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#339

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

hnthrowaway0328 wrote: post #141

It would be nice if EU seek independency from US eventually.

You're confused. The US doesn't control the EU in any way.

Or maybe you're not confused and you just object to the US and/or EU, but that's your problem, not theirs.

Terminology note: 'independency' is an archaic form of 'independence' which in this context means a self-governing state as opposed to being controlled by another state. This might be confused with 'interdependence' which is a natural reality of almost everything on earth, but especially those who cooperate and work and trade together.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#340

Post by hef19898 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #241
dragonwriter wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is independent of the US. There's a difference between alliance and dependency (and EU isn't coextensive with European NATO, but they are pretty close.)

In most ways yes, but militarily there's definitely some dependence on the US. A lot of European militaries were found to have relatively bare cupboards when the time to donate things to Ukraine came. Germany's Army Chief straight up said the army wasn't capable of fulfilling its mission. (And yeah the US struggled with artillery shells too, the difference is that the US has so much airpower it had a legit reason to…

The German armed forcea are really capabale of doing, or fielding, anything in meaningfull numbers ever since the end of the cold war. No big surprise here.
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