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OpenAI and Elon Musk

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Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#911

Post by nebula8804 »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #285
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is OpenAI had a reputation to protect, Musk can't sink any lower at this point, and his stans will persist. The fact that they slinging mud at each other just proves the mutual criticism though, and provides an edifying spectacle for the rest of us.

> Musk can't sink any lower at this point, and his stans will persist. You sure about that ? For now they are largely looking away (and boy it's hard !) from his 'far right' adventures. But it was just reported that he met with Trump. And it's pretty clear that if Trump is elected and does cancel EV subsides as he says he will do, Tesla is dead and he knows it. So now, we have both of those guys, having something eac…

If your life was changed by investing in TSLA you will look the other way the rest of your life. For many millennials that was their ticket to a good life.

His detractors do a poor job of knocking him down a peg. I am speaking as someone who was there on day 0 of r/realTesla.

Even today with garbage like that recent 60 minutes hit piece on SpaceX, it is easy to dismiss because of all the easily disprovable claims. So much criticism on Musk is just so lazily produced and not properly vetted and its a shame because there is a ton of material to get him with.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#912

Post by nebula8804 »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #566
averageRoyalty wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if Trump is elected and does cancel EV subsides as he says he will do, Tesla is dead You know that Tesla operates outside the US as well, right? Where 95% of the worlds population live?

I know, yes. But US still account for a very big share of their revenues. Check what happens to Tesla sales when countries cut EV subsides. New Zealand did it in January. Here is the data: https://evdb.nz/ev-stats The truth is, without subsides, Tesla would sell a fraction of what it does now, and it would certainly not be profitable (hell, it probably won't be profitable in 2024, even with the subsides !).

But at the same time, tear downs of their cars show they have healthy 30% margins when their competitors are selling their EVs often at a loss. Their current balance sheet looks much better than their competitors given the assets that they have for the EV transition. If governments are serious about transitioning to EVs then either they kick the other car companies into gear or accept that Tesla(and the Chinese) will be the only real serious players.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#913

Post by ben_w »

chankstein38 wrote: post #901
ben_w wrote: post #878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AI is used to create these things, yes. But the question was LLMs which I reiterated. And the grandparent of the grandparent of your comment specifically named "Stable Diffusion": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39612886 And text-based porn is still porn. And it's a distinction without a difference that ChatGPT Pro doesn't strictly create images itself but instead forwards the request to DALL•E. And the questi…

If we can change the rules of a discussion midway through, everyone loses. The parent replied to a question "What damage can be done with an llm without guardrails?" (regardless of the grandparent, this is how conversations work, you talk about the thing the other person talked about if you reply to them) and the response was to rattle off a bunch of stuff that LLMs can't do. Yes, they connected an LLM to an image ge…

> If we can change the rules of a discussion midway through, everyone loses.

Then we lost repeatedly at almost every other step back to the root, because it switched between those two loads of times.

The change to LLMs was itself one such shift.

> No, that doesn't mean "LLMs can generate images" aside from triggering some thing to happen

The aside is important.

> It's not pedantic or unreasonable to divide the two.

It is unreasonable on the question of "guardrails, good or bad?"

It is unreasonable on the question of "can it cause harm?"

It's not unreasonable if you are building one.

> If y'all want to rant and fear monger about any AI technology, including tech that has existed for years (deepfakes existed well before LLMs were mainstream)

And caused problems for years.

> That said, arguing with you people is pointless. You don't even seem to think.

Communication isn't a single-player game, I can't make you understand something you're actively unwilling to accept, like the idea that tools enable people to do more, for good and ill, and AI is such a tool.

Perhaps you should spend less time insulting people on the internet you don't understand. Go for a walk or something. Eat a Snickers, take a nap. Come back when you're less cranky.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#914

Post by retinaros »

ben_w wrote: post #880
boringg wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question. Does anyone trust Sam Altman at all anymore? My perspective from the outside is his public reputation is in tatters except that he's tied to Open AI. Im curious what the internal rep is and the greater community?

Yes, me. At least, I trust him as much as any other foreign[0] CEO. For all the stuff people complain about him doing, almost none of it matters to me, except for the stuff which isn't proven (such as his sister's allegation) where I would change my mind if evidence was presented. What I don't trust is that Californian ethics don't map well enough onto my ethics, which also applies to basically all of Big Tech… …but…

he is a salesman selling midly working snake oil, he was into nft a few year ago and jumped to the new snake oil. everything that elon is claiming now is real. they manipulated opinion and rode open source to train on public open data sources and once they had something they could,market they closed everything. its not up;for debate that is a fact

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#915

Post by philwelch »

KoolKat23 wrote: post #893
philwelch wrote: post #826

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s been known to happen that environmental regulations turn out to be ill-considered, counterproductive, entirely corrupt instances of regulatory capture by politically dominant industries, or simply poor cost-benefit tradeoffs. Gigantic pickups are a consequence of poorly considered environmental regulations in the United States, for instance.

True, at their core though, those aren't environmental at their heart but rather something else green-washed, be it corruption, subsidisation or something else.

Or sometimes the regulators make mistakes. Good intentions are no guarantee of good outcomes.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#916

Post by retinaros »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #817
TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing you wrote has a spec of evidence. The current administration has been clearly targeting Elon Musk and Tesla/SpaceX, so why on earth wouldn't Elon support their opponents?

Nothing you wrote has a spec of evidence.

everyone with a logical mind would see it. your political opinion should not cloud your judgement… people like you are the reason we have a senile old man leading our world to wars. I cant fathom why americans hate trump so much but are so lenient of biden and democrats that sent us to the worst conflict the world has seen in decades

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#917

Post by ben_w »

chankstein38 wrote: post #799
boredtofears wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake revenge porn, nearly undetectable bot creation on social media with realistic profiles (I've already seen this on HN), generated artwork passed off as originals, chatbots that replace real-time human customer service but have none of the agency... I can keep going. All of these are things that have already happened. These all were previously possible of course but now they are trivially scalable.

Why is everyone's first example of things you can do with LLMs "revenge porn"? They're text generation algorithms not even image generators. They need external capabilities to create images.

Do you also object to people saying that web browsers "display" a website even though that needs them to be plugged into a monitor?

If you chat to an LLM and you get a picture back, which some support, the image generator and the language model might as well be the same thing to all users, even if there's an important technical difference for developers.

It's a distinction that does not matter, as the question still has to be answered for the other modality. Do guns kill people, or do bad guys use guns to kill people? Does a fall kill you, or is it the sudden deceleration at the end? Lab leak or wet market? There's a technical difference, some people care, but the actionable is identical and doesn't matter unless it's your job to implement a specific part of the solution.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#918

Post by TaylorAlexander »

DrSiemer wrote: post #357
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest real problem I’m experiencing right now isn’t controls on the AI, it’s weird spam emails that bypass spam filters because they look real enough, but are just cold email marketing bullshit: https://x.com/tlalexander/status/1765122572067434857 These systems are making the internet a worse place to be.

So you still believe the open internet has any chance of surviving what is coming? I admire your optimism. Reliable information and communication will soon be opt-in only. The "open internet" will become an eclectic collection of random experiences, where any real human output will be a pleasant, rare surprise, that stirs the pot for a short blip before it is assimilated and buried under the flood.

> So you still believe the open internet has any chance of surviving what is coming?

I’m not really saying that, and haven’t put a lot of thought in to my views there. But when people say the biggest problem is the controls on the AI, I feel compelled to point out that the destruction of the open internet is happening despite these controls, and is a major problem unto itself.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#919

Post by layer8 »

qarl wrote: post #861
layer8 wrote: post #842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, maybe. (Personally I think that’s a mere conjecture, trying to throw more compute at the wall.) But obtaining that money by orienting their R&D towards a profit-driven business goes against the whole stated purpose of the enterprise. And that’s what’s being called out.

Well, I don't think it's a maybe. From the emails it seems clear that even Elon thought the project would flop without a ton of money. It seems pretty clear that they felt they had to choose between chasing money and shutting down. I'm guessing you'd prefer they went with the latter, but I can entirely understand why they didn't.

I don’t really care what they do. But since they’re now chasing money, they should be honest about it and say they had to give up on the original aspirations and have now become a normal tech company without any noble goals of doing R&D for the most benefit of humanity unconstrained by financial obligations.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#920

Post by ben_w »

retinaros wrote: post #914
ben_w wrote: post #880

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, me. At least, I trust him as much as any other foreign[0] CEO. For all the stuff people complain about him doing, almost none of it matters to me, except for the stuff which isn't proven (such as his sister's allegation) where I would change my mind if evidence was presented. What I don't trust is that Californian ethics don't map well enough onto my ethics, which also applies to basically all of Big Tech… …but…

he is a salesman selling midly working snake oil, he was into nft a few year ago and jumped to the new snake oil. everything that elon is claiming now is real. they manipulated opinion and rode open source to train on public open data sources and once they had something they could,market they closed everything. its not up;for debate that is a fact

I'm old enough to remember GPT-2, which they didn't release because they "wanted to set a precedent" for safety and responsibility.

GPT-2 wasn't marketable. They were mocked for it, even.

So it is, in fact, up for debate. So is much of the rest, that I care about.

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