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OpenAI and Elon Musk

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Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#731

Post by theptip »

ClarityJones wrote: post #634
Reubend wrote: post #13

Their evidence does a nice job of making Musk seem duplicitous, but it doesn't really refute any of his core assertions: they still have the appearance of abandoning their core mission to focus more on profits, even if they've elaborated a decent justification of why that's necessary to do. Or to put it more simply: here they explain why they had to betray their core mission. But they don't refute that they did betra…

> They're probably right that without making a profit, it's impossible to afford... This doesn't begin to make sense to me. Nothing about being a non-profit prevents OpenAI from raising money, including by selling goods and services at a markup. Some sell girl-scout cookies, some hold events, etc. So, you can't issue equity in the company... offer royalties. Write up a compensation contract with whatever formula the…

There is no way OpenAI could have raised $10B as a non-profit.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#732

Post by decafninja »

averageRoyalty wrote: post #485
TheAlchemist wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Musk can't sink any lower at this point, and his stans will persist. You sure about that ? For now they are largely looking away (and boy it's hard !) from his 'far right' adventures. But it was just reported that he met with Trump. And it's pretty clear that if Trump is elected and does cancel EV subsides as he says he will do, Tesla is dead and he knows it. So now, we have both of those guys, having something eac…

> if Trump is elected and does cancel EV subsides as he says he will do, Tesla is dead You know that Tesla operates outside the US as well, right? Where 95% of the worlds population live?

His 'stans and TLSA uber-bulls insist Tesla is no longer a car company but an AI one. So they probably don't care anymore.

I know some uber-bulls have long insisted Tesla stop selling cars to the public so they can be horded for the imminent Robotaxi fleet that will soon be deployed en masse by 2020.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#733

Post by chaorace »

habosa wrote: post #716

Regardless of who is right here, I think the enormous egos at play make OpenAI the last company I’d want to develop AGI. First Sam vs. the board, now Elon vs. everyone … it’s pretty clear this company is not in any way being run for the greater good. It’s all ego and money with some good science trapped underneath.

The really depressing thing is that the board anticipated exactly this type of outcome when they were going "capped profit" and deliberately restructured the company with the specific goal of preventing this from happening... yet here we are.

It's difficult to walk away without concluding that "profit secondary" companies are fundamentally incompatible with VC funding. Would that be a pessimistic take? Are there better models left to try? Or is it perhaps the case that OpenAI simply grew too quickly for any number of safeguards to be properly effective?

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#734

Post by hef19898 »

NeutralCrane wrote: post #713
hef19898 wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not to glorify the Soviet system. Looking back so, from the end of the Stalin era to, say, the mid-70s, the USSR did compete rather well so: - military and space tech was mostly on par (a bunch conflicts, incl. Vietnam, show that) - economically, the USSR was stable - people were not starving Of course, the was less luxury and consumerism, but that was true for a lot of other countries as well in Western Europe…

Stalinism lasted until at least his death in 1953. So the period you are describing is all of 20 years, which is essentially a blip on the scale of nations. That same period was also marked by a widespread economic golden age by most of the victors of WWII (France, UK, Japan) and several of the losers (Japan, West Germany), which also ended around the mid-70s, just not as harshly. That’s also around the time communis…

Western Europe, and especially Western Germany, benefited immensely from the Marshall plan. And economic freedom, the early days of what would become the EU and so on. And still, the USSR competed, successfully in the for them relevant fields of sciences and military. And their country didn't collapse doing so. Neither did it collapse immediately after loosing its competitiveness, that took until 1989.

Worth pointing out, Germany outpaced the European allied nations economically pretty quickly, as did Japan.

Being competitive for decades, and the most part of the Cold War, surely is no fluke. In the end, capitalism won out, no doubt about it. Also worth pointing out, capitalism does not lead to freedom, China is a very good example of that.

By the way China, they became the economic power house in the early 2000s. Is the Chinese system a fluke?

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#735

Post by 123yawaworht456 »

lynx23 wrote: post #458
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest real problem I’m experiencing right now isn’t controls on the AI, it’s weird spam emails that bypass spam filters because they look real enough, but are just cold email marketing bullshit: https://x.com/tlalexander/status/1765122572067434857 These systems are making the internet a worse place to be.

Thanks Meta for releasing llama. One of the most questionable releases in the past years. Yes, I know, its fun to play with LocalLLM, and maybe reason enought o downvote this to hell. But there is also the other side, that free models like this enabled text pollution, which we now have. Did I already say "Thanks Meta"?

neither of the big cloud models have any fucking guardrails against generating spam. I'd venture to guess that 99% of spam is either gpt3.5 (which is better, cheaper and easier to use than any local model) or gpt4 with scrapped keys or funded by stolen credit cards.

you have no evidence whatsoever that llama models are being used for that purpose. meanwhile, twitter is full of bots posting GPT refusals.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#736

Post by derelicta »

chaorace wrote: post #733
habosa wrote: post #716

Regardless of who is right here, I think the enormous egos at play make OpenAI the last company I’d want to develop AGI. First Sam vs. the board, now Elon vs. everyone … it’s pretty clear this company is not in any way being run for the greater good. It’s all ego and money with some good science trapped underneath.

The really depressing thing is that the board anticipated exactly this type of outcome when they were going "capped profit" and deliberately restructured the company with the specific goal of preventing this from happening... yet here we are. It's difficult to walk away without concluding that "profit secondary" companies are fundamentally incompatible with VC funding. Would that be a pessimistic take? Are there bett…

How did they structure it to prevent this? Is it in the statutes of the company or smth?

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#737

Post by troyvit »

habosa wrote: post #716

Regardless of who is right here, I think the enormous egos at play make OpenAI the last company I’d want to develop AGI. First Sam vs. the board, now Elon vs. everyone … it’s pretty clear this company is not in any way being run for the greater good. It’s all ego and money with some good science trapped underneath.

If AGI is as transformative as its proponents make it out to be, would it both attract and create those enormous egos though?

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#738

Post by numpad0 »

After 1-bit quantizing situation from my armchair, the whole series of event looks like a cold and dry business decision that Musk is a risk with low expectancy of return. Isn't that it, after all?

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#739

Post by timeon »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #343
Timber-6539 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... chosen a specific path for their business based on both practicality and risk reduction The risk reduction didn't go so well now that Elon is putting up lawyers to force them to become more "open". This organization thrives in the dark and they know their secret to success depends on it. Would save every one a lot of time if they came out as a proper non-profit and dropped "open" in the name/branding. > If they…

I’m pretty sure Elon won’t win the case, and still, 49% is less than 100%

> I’m pretty sure Elon won’t win the case

0%. Not 1%. I wish it were otherwise.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#740

Post by [deleted] »

boringg wrote: post #691
tcgv wrote: post #595

This post is a lame PR stunt, which will only add fuel to the fire. It tries to portray openAI as this great bennefactor and custodian of virtue: > “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...” > I've seen you (and Sam and other OpenAI people) d…

I also thought this was kind of entertaining in their method to try and tar and feather. The highly selective (much dated) e-mail comms in a very roughly packaged statement. If that's how they are trying to protect their public image it doesn't sell their position strongly if anything it makes them look worse. It looks very amateurish almost childish to be honest.

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