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OpenAI and Elon Musk

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Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#641

Post by Zambyte »

Jensson wrote: post #298
Zambyte wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. AGI needs an interface to be useful. 2. Natural language is both a good and expected interface to AGI. 3. LLMs do a really good job at interfacing with natural language. Which one(s) do you disagree with?

I think he disagrees with 4: 4. Language prediction training will not get stuck in a local optimum. Most previous things we train on could have been better served if the model developed AGI, but they didn't. There is no reason to expect LLMs to not get stuck in a local optimum as well, and I have seen no good argument as to why they wouldn't get stuck like everything else we tried.

It sounds like you're arguing against LLMs as AGI, which we're on the same page about.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#642

Post by mlrtime »

hef19898 wrote: post #542
ben_w wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Communist industry and economy worked reasonably well for the stuff were the state is the natural customer in any society: defence. Everything else, not so much. One thing I've been wondering: would housing, transport infrastructure, energy grid(s)[0], banking and similar basic financial services, water, basic food[1], education, emergency services, healthcare, waste disposal in general and public toilets in partic…

Yes, I'd say so. With the exception of drug availability issues, which started if I am not mistaken in the mid to late 70s (basically when the USSR started to really fall behind the West technologically), those aspects worked reasonably well in the USSR. And before someone says Venezuela or North Korea, the former is a deeply corrupt cleptocracy while the latter used to be the last stone-age version of Stalinism befo…

You've said "reasonably well" a couple times here.... I think there can be book written between the gap of "reasonably well" and "prosperous". And these things are all relative of course... if "reasonably well" is the best in the world at the time, then great. But when you have another system to compare to at the same time, "reasonably well" falls apart very quickly.

I'm not sure if you lived in a Soviet country during these times, but I think you will get MANY opinions that this was not working well.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#643

Post by [deleted] »

SeanLuke wrote: post #513
uncomputation wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don't refute that they did betray it They do. They say: > Elon understood the mission did not imply open-sourcing AGI. As Ilya told Elon: “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...” Whether you agree with this is a different matter but…

This claim is nonsense, as any visit to the Wayback Machine can attest. In 2016, OpenAI's website said this right up front: > We're hoping to grow OpenAI into such an institution. As a non-profit, our aim is to build value for everyone rather than shareholders. Researchers will be strongly encouraged to publish their work, whether as papers, blog posts, or code, and our patents (if any) will be shared with the world.…

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#644

Post by KoolKat23 »

philwelch wrote: post #604
KoolKat23 wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like saying rolling back environmental protection regulation will help humanity advance.

Not at all; it’s actually far more plausible that, in many cases, rolling back environmental regulations will help humanity advance.

Depends on your limited definition of advance. Chilling in a Matrix-esque wasteland with my fancy-futuristic-gadget isn't my idea of advanced-level-humanity.

May help with technological advancement, but not social or ethical advancement.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#645

Post by elif »

hef19898 wrote: post #607
elif wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pandora's box is already open on that one.. and none of the model providers are really attempting to address that kind of issue. Same with impersonation, deepfakes, etc. We can never again know whether text, images, audio, or video are authentic on their own merit. The only hope we have there is private key cryptography. Luckily we already have the tools for this, NFT in the case of media and DKIM in the case of your…

So we needed AI generated spam and scam content for Blockchain tech for digital content to make sense...

Whether it is hindsight or foresight depends on the perspective. From the zeitgeist perspective mired in crypto scams yea it may seem like a surprise benefit, but from the original design intention this is just the intended use case.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#646

Post by hef19898 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #589
westhanover wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can choose to remember the past any way you wish. Don’t be surprised when people start ignoring you because of your warped view on the world.

He is right about the fact that the Central Powers were fatally spent by summer 1918, though. Austria-Hungary alone was on the brink of collapse without ever engaging American troops in a large-scale battle, and its collapse would have brought the already weakened Kaiserreich down as well.

People tend to forget Austria-Hungary, myself included. Well, not forget, but kind of ignore them. Which doesn't do justice to anyone.

And yes, Austria-Hungary was done, earlier than summer 1918 in fact. As I said earlier, there is the risk of viewing WW1 in terms of WW2, whixhbis dangerous and wrong. It leads to ignore the Ottoman theatre of war, the fact Austria-Hungary was major power until the end of WW1 and that Italy was on the side of the Entente. And that France was never defeated in that war (man, I hate the memes of French warfare so, so much..., different topic so).

Another fun fact: Spain was one of the big arms and ammunitions suppliers in WW1.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#647

Post by neom »

_heimdall wrote: post #630
atleastoptimal wrote: post #320

Did people really think leading the development of the most important invention in human history wouldn’t involve a little bit of drama? I know everyone wants OpenAI to be a magical place that open sources their models the moment they’re done training, but it’s clear that they’ve chosen a reasonable path for their business based on both practicality and risk reduction. If they had gone another way, today they’d be an…

> most important invention in human history How can we possibly weigh all human inventions and decide this one, which has yet to even be invented, is the most important?

I try not to nitpick and let people on HN story tell a bit, it's fun reading. However, if I were to join you on the nitpicking, I'd further: Who is to measure "important" - oil and coal related products (automotive/electricity) may end up being the most important because they are our undoing! =)

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#648

Post by boredtofears »

ben_w wrote: post #435
boredtofears wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fake revenge porn, nearly undetectable bot creation on social media with realistic profiles (I've already seen this on HN), generated artwork passed off as originals, chatbots that replace real-time human customer service but have none of the agency... I can keep going. All of these are things that have already happened. These all were previously possible of course but now they are trivially scalable.

Most of those examples make sense, but what's this doing on your list? > chatbots that replace real-time human customer service but have none of the agency That seems good for society, even though it's bad for people employed in that specific job.

I've been running into chatbots that are confined to doling out information from their knowledgebase with no ability to help edge case/niche scenarios, and yet they've replaced all the mechanisms to receive customer support.

Essentially businesses have (knowingly or otherwise) dropped their ability to provide meaningful customer support.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#649

Post by simondotau »

cactusplant7374 wrote: post #502
averageRoyalty wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if Trump is elected and does cancel EV subsides as he says he will do, Tesla is dead You know that Tesla operates outside the US as well, right? Where 95% of the worlds population live?

And they face fierce competition from BYD. Things are not getting any easier despite Musk saying "legacy" can't keep up.

BYD isn’t legacy.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#650

Post by neom »

2pointsomone wrote: post #314

If anyone paying the right price to access a product, and no underlying technology, making it "open", isn't most of the world's technology open? Isn't Apple really OpenApple? Isn't Oracle really OpenOracle? Apple probably puts out more open-source tech than OpenAI. Does the word mean much anymore, then? Is it nothing more than a sentiment then? Perhaps OpenAI should have renamed itself to "AI for all" or something wh…

Red Hat made off alright. Genuine questions: If OpenAI can pull off something like Red Hat, would people be more, or less, ok with it?
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