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OpenAI and Elon Musk

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Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#621

Post by myaccountonhn »

mlrtime wrote: post #608
myaccountonhn wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately Slack is what is used at places I've worked at.

I prefer Slack over email... coming from using Outlook for 20+ years in a corporate environment, slack is light years beyond email in rich communication. I'm trying to think of 1 single thing email does better than slack in a corporate communication. Is slack perfect? Absolutely not. I don't care that I can't use any client I want or any back end administration costs or hurdles. As a user, there is no comparison.

I absolutely loathe it but I respect that many like it. Personally I think Zullip or Discourse are a better solutions since they provides similar interface to Slack but still have email integration so people like me who prefer email can use that.

The thing I hate the most is that people expect to only use Slack for everything, even where it doesn't make sense. So they will miss notifications for Notion, Google Doc, Calendar, Github, because they don't have proper email notifications set up. The plugins for Slack are nowhere near as good as email notifications as they just get drowned out in the noise.

And with all communication taking place in Slack, remembering what was decided on with a certain issue becomes impossible because finding anything on Slack is impossible.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#622

Post by VeejayRampay »

TheAlchemist wrote: post #36

This looks bad for OpenAI (although it's been pretty obvious that they are far from open for a long time). But it looks 10x worse for Elon. At least for the public image, he desperately try to maintain. > As we discussed a for-profit structure in order to further the mission, Elon wanted us to merge with Tesla or he wanted full control. > In late 2017, we and Elon decided the next step for the mission was to create a…

I'm really confused that people would think that this makes Elon Musk look bad

I mean, it was not the conspiracy-infused, anti-vaccine, pro-Russia, antisemitic vibe about him, no, but those emails that crossed the line

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#623

Post by imranhou »

qarl wrote: post #599
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks like one of the steps leading to the fulfilment of the iron law of bureaucracy. They are putting the company ahead of the goals of the company. "Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy…

> They are putting the company ahead of the goals of the company. I don't follow your reasoning. The goal of the company is AGI. To achieve AGI, they needed more money. What about that says the company comes before the goals?

I think what he is trying to say is they are compromising their underlying goal of being a non-profit for the benefit of all, to ensure the survival of "OpenAI". It is a catch-22, but those of pure intentions would rather not care about the survival of the entity, if it meant compromising their values.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#624

Post by lupire »

WalterBright wrote: post #375
danans wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has failed are completely "collectivist" or "individualist" societies. Societies that balance the two (like the post WWII US) are the ones that have advanced their standard of living the most.

The US became a superpower long before WW2. The US was the deciding factor in WW1, and the Germans were shocked at how well-fed and well-equipped the US soldiers were, even with having to ship everything across the ocean. The US saw the most spectacular rise in the standard of living from 1800 up to WW2 the world had ever seen. This was all due to the free market, not collectivism. During WW2, the US supplied its all…

The primary source of superiority in a war is "not being within reach of a enemy munitions". US does great in European wars for that reason, and is historically mostly free from North American wars because US dominates the whole continent.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#625

Post by sekai »

sumedh wrote: post #418
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit is the science, nothing else matters, and having OpenAI decide what matters for everyone is repugnant. Of course they can give us nothing, but in that case they should start paying taxes and stop claiming they're a public benefit org. My prediction is they'll produce little of value going forward. They're too distracted by their wet dreams about all the cash they're going to make to focus on the job at ha…

> The benefit is the science, nothing else matters Even if that science helps not so friendly countries like Russia?

> Even if that science helps not so friendly countries like Russia?

Nothing will stop this wave, and the United States will not allow itself to be on the sidelines.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#626

Post by lupire »

WalterBright wrote: post #378
color_me_not wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Collectivism involves deciding for others. That may be true, but that's not sufficient to define collectivism. There are many other forms of societal structures where "deciding for others" exists as well. Unless you mean to lump all these together, and say that companies and tyranny for example are the same as collectivism? > If it’s fully voluntary it’s individualism. If I _voluntarily_ decide to join a "collectiv…

> If I _voluntarily_ decide to join a "collective", am I individualist or collectivist? An individualist, if you are free to leave it at any time. There's nothing wrong with forming a collective in the US, I think like 20,000 of them have been formed over the last 240 years. You don't hear about them much because they all failed. You're free to start a collective anytime in the US and try to make it work. Isn't freed…

Has China failed?

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#627

Post by EchoChamberMan »

qarl wrote: post #599
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks like one of the steps leading to the fulfilment of the iron law of bureaucracy. They are putting the company ahead of the goals of the company. "Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy…

> They are putting the company ahead of the goals of the company. I don't follow your reasoning. The goal of the company is AGI. To achieve AGI, they needed more money. What about that says the company comes before the goals?

I think it works if the goals of the company are to make money, not actually to make agi?

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#628

Post by lupire »

Jensson wrote: post #436
dauertewigkeit wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of people including one side of my family have experienced the opposite. They were tenant farmers living in poverty, barely subsisting, before the hard left socialists both 1. developed the economy enough to give them jobs, 2. provided social safety nets such as tax payer paid healthcare so they wouldn't go bankrupt every time they needed to buy medicine or visit a doctor. If the country had never gone that…

> If the country had never gone that direction it would have spent many more decades being a quasi-feudal land stuck the the middle ages Capitalism was the end of such arrangements in the most developed parts of the world. Individualism helps since individual investors benefits from investing in better equipment making people more productive and thus helping living standards overall. Social solutions to the same prob…

I remember how chattel slavery was very effective at making people more productive, and how Google is famous for how well it respects individual users when they have problems.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#629

Post by lupire »

Jensson wrote: post #438
bergen wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you truely believe google, OpenAI or Ford are the product of a single person?

Everyone contributed for the sake of themselves and not for the greater good of the company, that is what individualism is.

This is absurdly reductionist. You can equally say that in a collectivist society everyone contributed for the sake of themselves and not for the greater good of the collective, to avoid being shunned and starved.

Individuals are always individualist unless they get lobotomized. The question of governance is how to manipulate that individualism to good ends.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#630

Post by _heimdall »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #320

Did people really think leading the development of the most important invention in human history wouldn’t involve a little bit of drama? I know everyone wants OpenAI to be a magical place that open sources their models the moment they’re done training, but it’s clear that they’ve chosen a reasonable path for their business based on both practicality and risk reduction. If they had gone another way, today they’d be an…

> most important invention in human history

How can we possibly weigh all human inventions and decide this one, which has yet to even be invented, is the most important?

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