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OpenAI and Elon Musk

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Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#71

Post by bugglebeetle »

andsoitis wrote: post #54
bugglebeetle wrote: post #14

> We couldn’t agree to terms on a for-profit with Elon because we felt it was against the mission for any individual to have absolute control over OpenAI. I think Musk’s lawsuit is without merit, but it’s laughable in light of what happened with the recent leadership struggle to include this bit.

> I think Musk’s lawsuit is without merit If it does not have merit, why does OpenAI feel compelled to write this post? Unless they know or at least fear that the lawsuit has merit.

Public relations. What Musk has said about OpenAI is true: they abandoned their mission and sold themselves off to Microsoft in pursuit of profit, and have no intention of making the technology (or its rewards) widely available to all. They can’t counter any of these claims credibly, but can still (correctly) paint the messenger as arguing in bad faith to diminish their impact. Being right about all of this doesn’t accrue any material benefit to Musk, however, because the terms of the agreement are so full of loopholes that just about any lawyer can drive a semi through them.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#72

Post by chjj »

I find it very strange that OpenAI would post this in the middle of a lawsuit. Shouldn't all of these emails come out in discovery anyway? Publishing this only benefits OpenAI if they're betting on the case never reaching discovery. It seems like they just want to publish very select emails which paint a certain picture.

Also, DKIM signatures are notably absent, not that we could verify them anyway since the emails are heavily redacted.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#73

Post by hackerlight »

Jensson wrote: post #45
TheAlchemist wrote: post #36

This looks bad for OpenAI (although it's been pretty obvious that they are far from open for a long time). But it looks 10x worse for Elon. At least for the public image, he desperately try to maintain. > As we discussed a for-profit structure in order to further the mission, Elon wanted us to merge with Tesla or he wanted full control. > In late 2017, we and Elon decided the next step for the mission was to create a…

Elon makes plenty of companies, him making an AI company that he was in control of doesn't look bad or strange at all.

He was pushing them to do the thing he's suing them over.

> Message to Elon: "A for-profit pivot might create a more sustainable revenue stream"

> Elon: You are right ... and Tesla is the only path.

Then 3 weeks later Elon gets kicked off the board, probably after a fight where he tried to make OpenAI become for-profit under Tesla.

How can you not see how conniving this man is? The lawsuit is either a revenge play or a play to take down xAI's competition.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#74

Post by rchaud »

reallymental wrote: post #11

All that's laid bare here, is the carcass of their personalities. None of this screams "I'm going to change this world", this organization is mired in politics from the start, no wonder Satya is hedging his bets. edit: grammar

The greatest trick AI has played is convincing the world that it's a black box that could genuinely grow out of the control of the powerful, well-connected few that control its development.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#75

Post by TheAlchemist »

Jensson wrote: post #45
TheAlchemist wrote: post #36

This looks bad for OpenAI (although it's been pretty obvious that they are far from open for a long time). But it looks 10x worse for Elon. At least for the public image, he desperately try to maintain. > As we discussed a for-profit structure in order to further the mission, Elon wanted us to merge with Tesla or he wanted full control. > In late 2017, we and Elon decided the next step for the mission was to create a…

Elon makes plenty of companies, him making an AI company that he was in control of doesn't look bad or strange at all.

I was talking about his public image - 'founder' of Tesla, doing everything for the love of humanity etc.

It's all bullshit, and these emails show it again. He is an extraordinary businessman of course - but everything he does, he does for money and power - mostly coming from government subsides btw. Until recently though, he managed to make most believe that it was to save the planet and the humanity.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#76

Post by bamboozled »

xcv123 wrote: post #64
threeseed wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Musk wants to take the high moral ground and lecture others about openness and the importance to humanity he should start with his own actions. It seems pretty clear that altruism is a cynical marketing and PR technique for him rather than something he actually cares about.

Musk cofounded and funded OpenAI.

Not a gian Musk fan lately, but this is true, it wouldn't even be a thing without him.

Once bitten twice shy.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#77

Post by devsda »

magnio wrote: post #6

> Elon understood the mission did not imply open-sourcing AGI. As Ilya told Elon: “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...”, to which Elon replied: “Yup”. Wow the most open OpenAI has ever been is when someone sue them. On the other hand, th…

> The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built.(even though sharing everything is definitely the right strategy in the short and possibly medium term for recruitment purposes).

"OpenSource". Open in open source means everyone should benefit from the fruits of source after it is built but it's totally OK to not share the source(Even though calling ourselves open is the right strategy for medium term recruitment and adoption purposes).

If anyone tries the same logic with "open" source, they will be ridiculed and laughed at, but here we are.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#78

Post by romanovcode »

archagon wrote: post #47
magnio wrote: post #6

> Elon understood the mission did not imply open-sourcing AGI. As Ilya told Elon: “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...”, to which Elon replied: “Yup”. Wow the most open OpenAI has ever been is when someone sue them. On the other hand, th…

[dead]

Trust me, the moment they do discover anything it will first be under the control of CIA, not the nerds who invented it.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#79

Post by romanovcode »

dmode wrote: post #44
nodesocket wrote: post #5

Seems pretty straightforward... Elon invested when they claimed to be an open-source non-profit, and clearly now are closed source and very for profit. The notion that the for profit is just a temporary means to achieve scale goals is laughable.

The emails clearly show that Elon had no interest on this being a non profit. Especially because he advocated for OpenAI to be absorbed by Tesla multiple times. The only reason he is suing is because xAI is dead and he needs some AI love.

Is xAI dead? I thought he is very much invested in Grok.

Re: OpenAI and Elon Musk

#80

Post by [deleted] »

uncomputation wrote: post #70
Reubend wrote: post #13

Their evidence does a nice job of making Musk seem duplicitous, but it doesn't really refute any of his core assertions: they still have the appearance of abandoning their core mission to focus more on profits, even if they've elaborated a decent justification of why that's necessary to do. Or to put it more simply: here they explain why they had to betray their core mission. But they don't refute that they did betra…

> they don't refute that they did betray it They do. They say: > Elon understood the mission did not imply open-sourcing AGI. As Ilya told Elon: “As we get closer to building AI, it will make sense to start being less open. The Open in openAI means that everyone should benefit from the fruits of AI after its built, but it's totally OK to not share the science...” Whether you agree with this is a different matter but…

[deleted]
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