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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

511–520 of 660 posts

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#511
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

best electric cars in the business, though that gap is shrinking. their automotive infotainment ux is second to none. it's miles better than carplay.

Never having driven a Tesla, I'm legitimately curious how much of a difference the infotainment makes. The onboard system of my Chinese BEV is not great to be honest (rest of the car works well) but it has Android Auto so it navigates and plays my media. Since as a sole driver I have to keep my eyes on the road at all times, it seems possible that passengers could benefit but I would like to have some first hand repo…

i've rented electric cars for the last three years and own a Model 3. massive difference.

yes, the tesla doesn't have buttons. however, basically every common operation you'll do can be done in five actions or less.

if i want to navigate somewhere with our tesla, i simply tap the navigation search bar, enter the destination like I would on Google Maps, select and drive. Or i can share the destination with the Tesla app from Google or Apple Maps.

It's at least four taps with CarPlay to do this...and you're hoping that it doesn't crash mid-drive (like it's done to me so many times before). Google Automotive actually does a really great job here, but that's only shipped with select cars.

i can swipe left or right on the cabin temp to adjust upwards or downwards. many cars have dedicated controls for them, but some, like the Kia EV6, use that strip for multiple uses, so you think you're changing cabin temp, but you're actually adjusting sound volume.

ADAS (Lane Keep Assist, Autosteer, adaptive cruise, etc) is where the Tesla experience shines most brightly. On EVERY OTHER CAR, configuring ADAS involves navigating a labyrinthine maze of menus, guessing what a bunch of acronyms mean (LKA, HDA, VCC, etc. Toyotas are the worst at this), and, when it's on, figuring out if it's actually on (autosteer is the worst about this) and hoping you'll develop muscle memory in changing speed and stuff from the steering wheel.

On Teslas, you single- or double-tap the gear stalk or press a button on the steering wheel. To configure, tap the car, tap "Autopilot," go nuts. The only acronym in this menu is FSD, and it's spelled out (full self-driving). the small speed indicator turns blue if traffic-aware cruise control is on; the wheel on the display turns blue if autosteer is on; and the display shows you its view of the world at all times.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't change the AC while I'm in motion. All my cars have auto AC so I rarely touch them even as the temperature changes outside. I probably adjust the AC a handful of times a year. I'd rather not waste a lot of dashboard space on buttons that practically never get pressed, I'd rather have my map be even bigger and easier to quickly glance at and have more space to browse my media collection while stopped. I don't…

this is akin to it works on my PC so not an issue

I'm not talking about a single car, I'm talking about several different makes and models over the last couple decades.

Works on my machine implies it's something special about that one device. My experience has been auto AC has worked fine with several different car models from several different makers across the last 24 years of car manufacturing.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that on cars like Tesla, UI updates will change the location of these buttons . This drives me INSANE. The other one: some of the Tesla UIs feel like they were made with "minimalism" in mind. For instance the rear defroster vs the windshield defroster. I still, 3 years into my model Y, have no idea which is which, and every time I need to defrost the front windshield it's like a fight against the HVAC…

How is it possible to love a car that does things you hate when there are other cars at the same price that does everything the object of your love does, and doesn't do the things you hate? It sounds like an irrational love for the car.

>other cars at the same price that does everything the object of your love does

Because there aren't? My tesla has FSD which I use for the majority of my driving, it looks cool, it's really fast, I really like the in dash display (just don't like UI updates, and some very specific parts of the HVAC controls).

This is such a funny question to me. Do you love your city? Is there *nothing* you dislike about it?

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#515

I got rid of my last car many years ago when cars still had casette players. What kind of controls do you really need in a car? I realize that a lot of cars have built in GPS now, but in my opinion all controls that require typing or looking at a screen should be disabled until the car is stopped.

These people basically live in their cars. Imagine just sitting on your bicycle without actually going somewhere on it. Seems weird, but that's what they do. These controls are all for the mobile living room aspect. Nothing to do with driving.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#516
post #282

But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn Are there really cars where the horn is not a physical button/ring on the steering wheel? IMHO the driving UX peaked in the 1960s, and was largely unchanged into the 2000s, until touch screens started taking over. Compare: https://i0.wp.com/www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads... https://images-stag.…

I've been driving for 15 years and only ever used my horn once.

I never use my horn either, but I must admit that this "courtesy honk" is cool and I would probably use the super chill button if I had it :)

https://youtu.be/lv8wqnk_TsA?si=V4rPj1L3W5uZz_2J

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#517
post #360

I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…

I took and ID3 for a test drive, an accidentally activated the speed limiter on the highway. That got quite scary, and it took ages to realize I had to swipe on one of the fake buttons to disable it. Compared to ID4, ID3 has another epic cost saving measure: They removed the two switches for the rear windows from the driver door, and replaced it with a toggle switch that decides whether the switches for the front win…

Same. Rented an ID3 for a weekend. Will never drive one again. Almost lethal design decisions on that car.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, the absence of a physical speed control for the windshield wipers is the single worst design flaw of Teslas. The fog lights are much worse

How about the voice commands for these? ("Wipers 1-slash-4"). I just got my first Tesla, MYLR, and even though it's annoying not having the stalks given the rain sensor is absolute junk the voice command seems to work 98% of the time. The voice command is activated from a button on the steering wheel - it may require a network connection though. I haven't tried the fog lights, it may not have a command, but there's a…

why are so many people in the tech world obsessed with voice controls? Seriously, this is imperfect at best and definitely a downgrade from a physical button.

What is with this obsession?

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#519

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

My Jeep Wrangler has a physical volume knob that may or may not elicit a change in volume when turned within the first 30 seconds of starting the car. Which can be literally deafening if you had on e.g. a podcast at 75% volume when you turned the car off and it turned back on to the radio. Some of these things need a dedicated circuit.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#520
post #288

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

> I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls Fan controls are important to remove fog on the windows. I should be able to enable it without looking away the road.

Properly defrosting/defogging the windows would be more than just a fan control. Ideally you want to ensure the AC compressor and heat are both running and you need to change the vent settings.

Far better to have a dedicated defrost button next to the driver's normal controls that does it all as a single toggle rather than have the driver make multiple adjustments. Which is what I have on both of my cars, one of which people complain about how it's just a giant touchscreen.

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