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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

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Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#421

Post by mythhabit »

close04 wrote: post #383
mgoetzke wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

those 'haptic' buttons are real buttons. with a click feel and everything. they are great (tested in highland model 3)

What people call "real buttons" usually require a certain force and travel to activate. Capacitive buttons require little to no force or feedback, sometimes not even solid contact. I think the easiest way to understand the difference is to ask 2 questions: "can I put my finger on that button and not immediately trigger it" and "can I can physically tell that I am triggering it (ideally some physical travel)?" If the…

Apple has actually combined the two with their touchpads. When you press on them you get the "click" feedback. But its not actually a physical travel that activates, it's what they call "the haptic engine" that vibrates in a way that makes it feel like you've clicked a physical button. It works really well.

However, I think that such buttons are far more expensive than a physically activated button, even if the latter is engineered to last a lifetime of heavy use.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#422

Post by plaidfuji »

Preach. Very little further “innovation” required for turn signals, lights, wipers, windows, mirrors, seat heaters, horn (?!), gear shifter, HVAC, radio.

I love the direction of recent Toyotas that have actually made the driver and passenger side temp. controls even larger knobs than before, with rubberized grips. Also generally pleased with BMW’s iDrive knob to control the center screen for more complex menu-based controls.

Maps/Nav is the only thing that should require a touch screen, and the best interface for that is to delegate to the driver’s phone via CarPlay. Yes, having to lean over and use an index finger to interact with a touch screen while moving is unsafe. Hope the US follows suit.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#424

Post by elif »

modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

What's the difference between "physical turn signal controls" and "physical buttons with haptic feedback"?

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#425

Post by elif »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #224
modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

But even then, how do you find the A/C or volume control on a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road, without accidentally touching something else? You just can't feel your way to the volume knob. Sure, you are a responsible driver and would only do that at a traffic light or other completely safe situation, but I don't know how many accidents touch controls in cars already caused with less responsible dr…

I know it will cost me karma to point it out, but in a Tesla you can use voice control to adjust your AC/radio/navigation while your eyes are on the road and your car's 10 eyes are on the road.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#426

Post by Vespasian »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #205
lelanthran wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it possible to love a car that does things you hate when there are other cars at the same price that does everything the object of your love does, and doesn't do the things you hate? It sounds like an irrational love for the car.

What's your list of other cars that have the same charging network access and self-driving capabilities?

In part Europe thew answer for the first is "all of them".

(And yes that works. I recently finished a 2k+ road trip in Germany and had no issues at all. Plug and charge worked flawlessly on every DC fast charger I visited. AC charging worked by swiping my RFID card).

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#427

Post by usrusr »

rightbyte wrote: post #410
usrusr wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that might actually be an advantage of that new Tesla layout (never seen a Tesla from the inside): small fiddly sensor surfaces on the wheel are best operated while going straight, whereas the stalk keeps tempting the driver to leave operation to the hand movement that happens anyways when starting the turn. Guilty as charged, deeply sorry about that (I don't think it's a regular habit of mine, but we've all se…

> Yeah, that might actually be an advantage of that new Tesla layout Seems annoying if you want to do a turn when in a turn?

Absolutely, that's the roundabout scenario. Downsides do outweigh the advantages.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#428

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

dotancohen wrote: post #132
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was surprisingly subtle when the power steering crapped out at 30mph It's not a problem at those speeds, having it crap out when turning slowly and sharply around fast traffic is much more likely to be deadly.

The opposite is true. Those old AMCs without power steering were just as easy to steer on the highway as any other car (once you managed to get up to speed) but the parking lot was a chore and parallel parking was neigh impossible.

I guess I got the wording wrong because that's exactly what I meant.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#429

Post by Yizahi »

sensanaty wrote: post #306
modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

Teslas don't have physical blinker switches?? That is pure lunacy, are you telling me they're touchscreen activated now?

Tesla planned that everything in the car would be automated, including driving. In such case people don't need a thought out UI and responsive controls and all that can be cut down to either save money or to focus on media entertainment for the passengers. That's why they replaced steering wheel with a yoke, buttons with screens etc. Unfortunately they forgot that car need to be fully automated first, and then redesigned later. Not the other way around.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#430

Post by maxerickson »

jwr wrote: post #360

I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…

I bet you get bad controls even with a rigid prescription.

And then your rigid rule would prevent something like having a touch menu for a setup function that you would never have good reason to adjust while driving. Likely making it worse.

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