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I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

jzhwu.blogspot.com

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Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#371

Post by wpietri »

davidu wrote: post #209
pbiggar wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Your referral bonus is a perk" It seems your argument centers on this point, which is conjecture on your part, at best. Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?

At my company, it's a perk. And I love paying it out. And my loyalty is to my employees. I would bleed for them. But it's not to my former employees. As I approach 100 employees, many who have been with me for 4+ years, I find my stance to be entirely in their favor.

You are seriously saying in public that if somebody forgot to ask for the bonus at the 6 month mark you'd just pocket it if they left at any point before remembering to ask for it?

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#372

Post by eric-hu »

slantyyz wrote: post #334
wpietri wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen to that. Part of the job of a manager is to look out for the people doing the actual work. Taking ten large from a trusting employee is bad. Blaming the employee for leaving the cover sheet off his TPS reports is worse.

So none of the responsibility of what happened belongs to the OP? I am not siding with his former employer, but anyone who has any work experience knows that they should make sure the cheques have cleared as soon as they have an idea that they want to leave. It's a cynical view, but people should always expect a company to be less than cooperative once they leave, even when the company is in the wrong. I have found t…

In that same vein:

It was the company's responsibility (too) that there was no database backup when he wiped it.

It will be the company's responsibility when the referred employee hears about this and has a diminished reputation of the company. Will it bite them in the ass? Probably. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next month, maybe in a year when things get hectic and the referred employee sees no reason to be loyal to these guys...

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#373

Post by slantyyz »

wpietri wrote: post #369
slantyyz wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So none of the responsibility of what happened belongs to the OP? I am not siding with his former employer, but anyone who has any work experience knows that they should make sure the cheques have cleared as soon as they have an idea that they want to leave. It's a cynical view, but people should always expect a company to be less than cooperative once they leave, even when the company is in the wrong. I have found t…

If you get beat up walking down the street, is that your responsibility? Sure, in the sense that any idiot can always find ways that you could have avoided it if only you had done something differently. And in the very obvious sense that nobody else can suffer through the pain of a broken nose for you.

Seriously, it's not common sense to assume that an employer will behave stupidly once you announce your intention to leave? You should assume that you'll get walked out when you hand in your resignation, and that after that, your former employer will not play nice.

In small companies, I've seen owners contemplate/prepare nuisance lawsuits just to make examples out of recently exited people for sheer pettiness. And these were employers who would have been perceived as stand-up guys before the people quit.

It's a pretty old rule of thumb that you get your ducks in a row before quitting, just like you shouldn't accept any counteroffers from your employer after you hand in your resignation.

The OP gets some sympathy from me for getting shafted, but he gets no sympathy for being naive about how to leave a company.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#374

Post by adgar »

creamyhorror wrote: post #363
davidu wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, a wild and broad conclusion based on my perspective that perks for employees are valid for actual employees, and not former employees. The company should have paid it out when he earned it. The employee should have requested it before quitting. Neither event happened. It doesn't matter if the employee quit two days ago, two weeks ago or two decades ago. He's not an employee now and should just move on with his…

"Too bad you forgot sucks for you" is not what the law says, nor is it the ethical thing to do, IMO.

> "Too bad you forgot sucks for you" is not what the law says, nor is it the ethical thing to do, IMO.

That's not what's going on.

It's "Too bad we forgot and you forgot to remind us sucks for you."

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#375

Post by slantyyz »

eric-hu wrote: post #372
slantyyz wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So none of the responsibility of what happened belongs to the OP? I am not siding with his former employer, but anyone who has any work experience knows that they should make sure the cheques have cleared as soon as they have an idea that they want to leave. It's a cynical view, but people should always expect a company to be less than cooperative once they leave, even when the company is in the wrong. I have found t…

In that same vein: It was the company's responsibility (too) that there was no database backup when he wiped it. It will be the company's responsibility when the referred employee hears about this and has a diminished reputation of the company. Will it bite them in the ass? Probably. Maybe tomorrow, maybe next month, maybe in a year when things get hectic and the referred employee sees no reason to be loyal to these…

>> It was the company's responsibility (too) that there was no database backup when he wiped it.

I always say "If you fail to prepare, prepare to fail." I'm seeing a pattern here in the OP's behavior that led to him wiping the database and his naive reliance on his former employer to do the right thing before exiting the company. This guy has no clue about how to contingency plan.

As for the company, shame on them, but that kind of douchy behaviour is rampant in startups and small companies. You always need to look out for your own personal financial interests first with startups, no matter how 'collegial' the work environment is.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#376

Post by slantyyz »

Symmetry wrote: post #337
backspace wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, debt can be (and usually is) zeroed out when you leave a company. As I explained in another comment, most companies (don't know about Miso) make you sign an agreement during your exit interview that the company does not owe you anything except X, Y, Z items that are enumerated clearly (these usually include your last paycheck and check for unpaid vacation days).

I've also never heard about anyone ever signing something like that at an exit interview. Why on Earth would someone sign something like that anyways? At my last job at BAE:IS they tried to get me to sign an NDA when I left, but I had to refuse for various reasons and eventually they were satisfied with a nice note explaining those reasons paper clipped to the NDA form in my file.

It's more common than you think.

You might not see this in a small startup where the owners/managers don't have much business experience, but the rule of thumb is you NEVER sign this paper unless you're absolutely sure you will never cross paths with your previous employer again, no matter how much $ is dangling in front of you to sign it.

For a lot of departing employees, the stress of the situation leads them to sign it (i.e., sign now or you lose the chance to get this money we're dangling in front of you), which is often a mistake, because you are often signing away your right to sue them.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#378

Post by wpietri »

slantyyz wrote: post #373
wpietri wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you get beat up walking down the street, is that your responsibility? Sure, in the sense that any idiot can always find ways that you could have avoided it if only you had done something differently. And in the very obvious sense that nobody else can suffer through the pain of a broken nose for you.

Seriously, it's not common sense to assume that an employer will behave stupidly once you announce your intention to leave? You should assume that you'll get walked out when you hand in your resignation, and that after that, your former employer will not play nice. In small companies, I've seen owners contemplate/prepare nuisance lawsuits just to make examples out of recently exited people for sheer pettiness. And th…

Isn't it common sense to assume that there are dangerous people in the world? People getting assaulted should have known and taken appropriate precautions. I don't have any sympathy for them. Don't they read the papers?

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#379

Post by mikeash »

tobtoh wrote: post #364
mikeash wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't fail it, it was just a bit late.

He left the company - he failed the condition. Once you leave a company, all your contacts are ended.

"Once you leave a company, all your contacts are ended."

Um, no. Assuming you meant "contracts", but in either case, no. That's not how it works.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#380

Post by j_baker »

marekmroz wrote: post #330
j_baker wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing my point. :-) I personally could care less whether you posted screenshots or not. But if you were considering employing someone and found that they had posted something like this (with little to no evidence), what would your reaction be? Heck, what would your reaction be if it did have screenshots?

It's "could NOT care less", unless you actually care a little and in fact could care less if not for that bit of care in your heart. If that is case, accept my sincere apologies. Pardon my pet peeve. To answer your question: if it were me hiring a person, absence or presence of screenshots would not make any difference. A contract is a contract and the person is owed $10k.

It's called sarcasm. It's like how I say "Nice catch!" even though someone dropped the ball. Or like how someone who says "I could give a damn" probably doesn't.

Pardon my pet peeve.

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