Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

ggd.world

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 190 posts

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#141

Post by brutusborn »

hughesjj wrote: post #113
lotsofpulp wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been on both sides of drunk crashes (not driving) as were (possibly most of) my friends. That is a crazy statistic that would be a clear signal for me to move away.

It describes much of American suburbia, regrettably... I grew up in South eastern Pennsylvania and it seemed more like 'when' not 'if' people would get a DUI. When there's not much to do and you live in an area designed for cars, a shocking amount of people will just not give AF and drink drive. Can't afford cabs but can afford the bar.

I’ve experienced the same in Australian suburbia. Awful drinking culture and pre-Uber taxi unreliability means a lot of people drink and drive.

It is more common in low socio-economic areas but still existing in all classes. Hell, our state treasurer lost his job after hitting multiple cars on his way home. https://www.watoday.com.au/national/western-australia/troy-b...

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#142

Post by brutusborn »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #91
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think I've ever witnessed a bar fight, and no one I know has been involved in a drunk driving crash I grew up drinking and lived in alcohol culture(s). At 25 I moved to another state, didn't drink and mostly circulated in non-drinking circles. Before 25 I saw plenty of alcohol fueled fights. They weren't in bars but neither was I. I've been on both sides of drunk crashes (not driving) as were (possibly most…

> I've been on both sides of drunk crashes (not driving) as were (possibly most of) my friends. That is a crazy statistic that would be a clear signal for me to move away.

I grew up in an isolated location with a big drinking culture. As a youngster I wasn’t aware that there were places to move to without this problem. You could choose to avoid the drinking culture, but that was basically social suicide in both University and in Industry.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#143

Post by Dracophoenix »

nox101 wrote: post #5

This presentation from the Long Now Foundation makes the proposition that drinking helps create society https://longnow.org/ideas/drinking-10000-years-intoxication-... > Drawing on evidence from archaeology, history, cognitive neuroscience, psychopharmacology, social psychology, literature, and genetics, Slingerland shows that our taste for chemical intoxicants is not an evolutionary mistake, as we are so often told.…

> A recent anime had a line "drinking is healing" meant that's where you let go of your worries and you heal relationships.

Which anime?

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#144

Post by tkgally »

a_vanderbilt wrote: post #140
tkgally wrote: post #112

The article engages in a bit too much overgeneralization for my taste: “Collective harmony and hierarchy are strongly idealised across East Asia,” “Americans are extremely direct,” etc. There’s a lot more social and individual diversity than statements like that suggest. One data point: I grew up in the U.S. but have lived in Japan for the past forty-one years. I freelanced for Japanese companies for my first two dec…

I get the impression the variable is not social drinking but social adaptitude. I do want your opinion on the matter, however. Every native Japanese person I have known is incredibly reserved. As an example, I had a Japanese coworker, and I did not even know they had a wife until they corrected me in conversation. Maybe it is the subtle aspects of the language (my Japanese is still not great)? I am looking to establi…

At the risk of overgeneralizing myself:

People in Japan tend to avoid talking about personal matters in the workplace. In my twenty years at a university here, I have met almost none of the spouses or partners of my colleagues, and there have been quite a few colleagues—including ones I worked closely with—whose marital or relationship status I never knew. Faculty social gatherings never included spouses or partners, except informal events organized by the foreign faculty. My impression is that the situation is quite different at universities in the U.S.

The exception was children: My Japanese colleagues—both male and female—often mentioned their kids, and at the campus where I worked until COVID it was not unusual for faculty to bring their children to the office during school vacations. The faculty all had private offices, and there was no problem with children hanging out there during the day. That would be much more difficult for office workers, though.

Another reason why Japanese people you meet seem reserved could be the language barrier. If they aren’t fluent in English, they may seem less outgoing than they would in their native language.

Good luck with your Japanese studies. Knowing the language makes things much easier here.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#145

Post by resolutebat »

hattmall wrote: post #133
resolutebat wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the "with food" bit is underrated. Bar/pub food in the West is crappy almost by definition (the occasional gastropub notwithstanding) and many/most people don't eat anything at all, while if you go drinking in Tokyo, food is an absolutely critical part of the izakaya (Japanese pub) experience. It's also quite socially acceptable for women to go to an izakaya and drink oolong tea instead of alcohol all night l…

I don't really see how this is the case, every single nice restaurant also has a bar and bar area, it's not like you have to go to Buffalo Wild Wings or something.

That's right, you have separate areas for dining (the restaurant) and drinking (the bar), and you choose one or the other, or at best sample both.

In a Japanese izakaya, they're inseparable, you eat while you drink.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#146

Post by resolutebat »

sceoom wrote: post #102
kazinator wrote: post #63

> Why Do East Asian Firms Value Drinking? Lack of a history of Christian puritanism? America's historic relationship with alcohol was shaped by the loonies who fled there from Europe so they could left alone to practice their ascetic forms of Christianity. A lot of phenomena in Asia cannot be properly understood if you lose sight of the lack of Christianity. For instance, could you have a mainstream, pop-band consist…

East Asian countries aren't exactly known for their creative, sexual expression either

{{citation needed}}

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Ping_Mei

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carnal_Prayer_Mat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman%27s...

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#147

Post by kazinator »

resolutebat wrote: post #146
sceoom wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

East Asian countries aren't exactly known for their creative, sexual expression either

{{citation needed}} https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Ping_Mei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Carnal_Prayer_Mat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman%27s...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanamara_Matsuri

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#149

Post by emptysongglass »

kelnos wrote: post #50
nox101 wrote: post #5

This presentation from the Long Now Foundation makes the proposition that drinking helps create society https://longnow.org/ideas/drinking-10000-years-intoxication-... > Drawing on evidence from archaeology, history, cognitive neuroscience, psychopharmacology, social psychology, literature, and genetics, Slingerland shows that our taste for chemical intoxicants is not an evolutionary mistake, as we are so often told.…

> My experience was before lived in Asia (USA only) I thought drinking was bad (bar fights, drunk driving deaths, etc...) Wow, I guess I just don't hang out with the same kinds of people you do (USA as well). I don't think I've ever witnessed a bar fight, and no one I know has been involved in a drunk driving crash (on either side of it). And yet I've done plenty of drinking (I don't remember much of my 30s because o…

It's the same in Denmark. It's basically required to get Danes to open up emotionally but it's destructive because the emotional opening-up doesn't carry over back across the veil to sobriety.

For a people who were once Vikings, they're incredibly non-confrontational. If you have a difficult conversation with them and they're sober there's a high chance they simply never speak to you again.

I don't really think alcohol is the answer to constructing a society, especially given its other negative health effects.

Re: Why do east Asian firms value drinking?

#150

Post by daesik »

Based on my experience living in Korea, it appears that the country exhibits a collectivist culture. Collectivism emphasizes the importance of careful consideration in forming relationships, which can lead to significant stress. A key aspect of this culture is the desire to avoid causing inconvenience to others. Similarly, alcohol culture, akin to ice-breaking activities, serves as a means to alleviate tension in social interactions, making it a crucial cultural element in Korea.
Post reply on HN