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I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

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Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#321

Post by ryguytilidie »

cletus wrote: post #130

"Name and shame" is a thorny issue. Opponents are right in the same way you shouldn't badmouth former employers in job interviewers. It's not fair but it makes you look worse. You just kind of have to suck it up and move on. When companies screw you out of money, you should name and shame them (IMHO). Trust me, over the years I've probably lost out on all told $50,000 or more that people never paid. In some cases it…

"I'm not saying the employer is completely in the right here but honestly I think they're more right than he is and certainly come out of this looking better than he does."

This HAS to be the employer. I cannot imagine how someone can seriously think this. As a recruiter I have awarded bonuses to employees at 3 different companies and no one ever had to fill out a form, it was just a matter of if we paid him or not.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#322

Post by imroot »

I'm in a bit of a similar situation. My last company didn't have any form of corporate credit, so I purchased everything on my own card and submitted the expenses to be reimbursed.

Fast forward to November. I purchased over 8k worth of computers, phones, and software for new hires. I get my reimbursement check in Janurary. Most of their amazon stuff running was on my amazon account, and I ended up paying for their Microsoft assurance license costs out of my own pocket with the promise that I would be reimbursed.

I left in early April.

Guess who's still using his twilio API key for their SMS notifications? Guess who hasn't migrated their stuff off of his amazon key? Guess who hasn't paid him for his last expenses, and who held my last paycheck for an extra two weeks?

It's someone that is getting ready to get a first round of fifteen million valuation -- and I'm hopeful that when they fund, I start to see some of the money, but I'm not holding my breath...

Hell, I've sent them emails asking to have them remove their services from my accounts; even providing detailed instructions on how to do so. I am afraid of turning them off because I do not want to be accused of disrupting their services -- which would be a death blow to my career -- and emails sent to the CTO and VP of engineering go into the ether.

Bonus: the two attorneys I talked to wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#323

Post by chasing »

arbales wrote: post #229

Really disappointed by this post. As a long time friend of Miso and the awesome people there – the people responsible for several awesome open source projects (Padrino, RABL, to name a few) – it makes me really bummed someone would choose to bring an issue up in this way. I've never heard of a former employee receiving a bonus – referral or otherwise. The idea of a referral bonus is rewarding someone for /growing/ th…

Did you read the article in question? Because, jeez. What the hell.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#324

Post by ryguytilidie »

backspace wrote: post #132
jtchang wrote: post #32

Thank you for posting this. As a community of entrepreneurs and hackers it helps all of us know what happens behind the scenes. Some people may view it as airing their dirty laundry but I see it as a way to keep people honest. The fact that you dropped the production database sucks. However you stayed around and fixed it. I can't really say anything more. My bet is we all handle lots of sensitive data around here. Ou…

I disagree. Handling things professionally and keeping people honest are two different things. There is no "service to the SV community" that this guy is doing by airing dirty laundry. If you've been wronged by your former company, handle it on your own. Shaming the company is not going to help you, the company, or anyone else. What you're effectively suggesting is that your "service" is to warn everyone to stay away…

Wow this is a super horrible post.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#325

Post by mcantelon »

cletus wrote: post #130

"Name and shame" is a thorny issue. Opponents are right in the same way you shouldn't badmouth former employers in job interviewers. It's not fair but it makes you look worse. You just kind of have to suck it up and move on. When companies screw you out of money, you should name and shame them (IMHO). Trust me, over the years I've probably lost out on all told $50,000 or more that people never paid. In some cases it…

>It's not fair but it makes you look worse. You just kind of have to suck it up and move on.

My guess is this will negatively effect them more than it effects him. He's not badmouthing the company as a whole, he's badmouthing them reneging on a specific deal they made with him. They essentially earned $10K at the cost of advertising to devs that they are the kind of employer that will weasel out of a deals they make. Is saving that $10K worth that change to their reputation? Probably not.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#327

Post by fleitz »

arbales wrote: post #297
fleitz wrote: post #77

Stop calling it a bonus, it isn't, it's payment for your services of recruitment. The offer came as part of a written agreement from an officer of the company in relation to the duties required by employees (adding the optional duty of recruitment) and their remuneration for performing said services (your payment for recruitment). Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Bonuses are when you receive additional pay for…

It actually /is/ a bonus – because you're already employed, and salaried, there's no obligation for your employeer to pay you more for services rendered. I'm no lawyer either, but Google seems to think "Referral Bonus" is a common thing.

Then they should stop creating an expectation of pay in relation to the referral and make it clear that the company pays these in capricious manner which will depend on how much the CEO likes you that day instead of relating it to the performance of your job.

If the CEO sent an email about new "Capricious and Arbitrary Referral Bonus" then I'd tend to agree with you that the OP should have expected to be treated in a capricious and arbitrary manner in regard to the payment of the bonus.

For example in my options contract with my last employer it stated that the options were part of an employee retention program and should not be construed as remuneration.

After reading those lines I knew the options were a ploy to retain employees and not to actually expect to make a cent from the options. Upon quitting and being offered to buy out my options I said "The options contract states that it's for retention and not remuneration, why would I buy something that you've warranted as worthless?"

It's no different than an employer offering a 'bonus' for hitting a certain date for code. If I quit day after delivery it should make no difference as to whether I'm paid.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#328

Post by suresk »

arbales wrote: post #290
thesnider wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you ever set this system up so that the employee would have to remember to claim the bonus unless you never really expect to pay it? Surely the company could very easily determine who is woed bonuses when, and automatically disburse them? Mine certainly does! It's great for you that you don't care about $10,000 owed to you, but not everyone is in that position, and that doesn't make them worse people then y…

Oh don't get me wrong, if someone actually owed me 10k, I'd totally care /and/ be aggressive about collecting, but that's not the case here. Startups, especially small ones, need not waste time with HR infrastructure like this – they're building products. HR should be ad-hoc and people-driven. If that's a problem, there are numerous larger companies to work for that devote their time to things like that. It's not unr…

How is that not _exactly_ the case here? The company offers a $10k fee for referring an employee who stays 6 months. Employee refers someone who stays 6 months, but the company forgets to pay him and he forgets until a month after he quits. The company owes him $10k, and the fact that he quit is immaterial.

I don't think the naming and shaming was a very good idea, but he is absolutely owed $10k.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#329

Post by zasz »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #157
MartinCron wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, coupling those incidents is, if not intellectually dishonest, at least intellectually sloppy.

It has nothing to do with the relatedness of those incidents. Again, since apparently people missed it: Regardless of whether or not Miso is right to evade their promise of a bonus, I'm not so quick to heap sympathy upon rremoncake. You hire a plumber to do a major job. You're in a hurry. You tell the plumber, I'll pay you a bonus if you finish this by (date). The plumber accidentally floods a downstairs room in the…

I'm kind of amazed that most of your contributions to this thread have been about telling people that they're wrong for feeling a certain way. That's like me telling you you're wrong for liking code. You agreed that Miso clearly owes him money. That is why people are sympathetic to this guy. He is owed a lot of money.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#330

Post by marekmroz »

j_baker wrote: post #247
rremoncake wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather not post original emails and screenshots supporting my claims. If verification is demanded by the majority I'll comply.

I think you're missing my point. :-) I personally could care less whether you posted screenshots or not. But if you were considering employing someone and found that they had posted something like this (with little to no evidence), what would your reaction be? Heck, what would your reaction be if it did have screenshots?

It's "could NOT care less", unless you actually care a little and in fact could care less if not for that bit of care in your heart. If that is case, accept my sincere apologies.

Pardon my pet peeve.

To answer your question: if it were me hiring a person, absence or presence of screenshots would not make any difference. A contract is a contract and the person is owed $10k.

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