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California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

cpuc.ca.gov

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Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#91
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the safe driving alone is a big improvement. Every time I get into an Uber, I hope and pray the driver isn’t aggressive and erratic. You always know what you’re going to get with a Waymo. Plus, nice and clean Jaguar I-Pace vehicles. No person to talk to and no tipping.

You trust an entity you can't interact with over a human being?

Granted I've never been in a Waymo but I've definitely been picked up by Uber/Lyft drivers who were extremely erratic and likely drunk or high.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#92

As a resident, I don’t support this at all. Waymos are annoying to have on the road - they go extremely slowly (with good reason) and make weird traffic moves. Do we want our roads getting clogged up with super slow taxis that steal jobs from ordinary people and give them to the tech industry?

Not at all my experience and I get a ton of value out of Waymos. > steal jobs from ordinary people and give them to the tech industry technological progress is good, it is good to reallocate people's talent if we no longer need drivers

That’s not how humans actually work. Driving is one of the last big job sources for millions of Americans and when it disappears there will be many people out of work. Expect more homeless and drug use when people have difficulty transitioning in a post driver world.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#94
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just the safe driving alone is a big improvement. Every time I get into an Uber, I hope and pray the driver isn’t aggressive and erratic. You always know what you’re going to get with a Waymo. Plus, nice and clean Jaguar I-Pace vehicles. No person to talk to and no tipping.

You trust an entity you can't interact with over a human being?

100%. Seeing the idiots we give driving licenses to these days, I’d pick the machine every single time.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#95
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re much safer, and tech has already stolen from drivers (via 50% cuts). Yes, we do want safer transportation. Evolving as a society is important.

Show me indenpendant research that they are safer. I can’t find any.

If they were less safe than human drivers, one would there would be more accidents where Waymo was at fault than another party.

Having personally gone through several years of AV collisions reports to California a few months back, that wasn't the case. Indeed, in most of the small number of cases where Waymo was at fault, there was human driver in control of the vehicle.

The were a four cases where the Waymo was at fault. One hit a chain strung across parking lot. There was a minor collision with a parked car. One ran over and killed a dog. One hit a vehicle while trying to reverse.

There were dozens where the other party was at fault (lots of rear ends).

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#96

Fantastic news. I use them all the time in Phoenix. My mom uses them to get to her doctor appointments. I think people underestimate how much of a quality of life improvement these are for people even when compared to Uber/Lyft.

> people underestimate how much of a quality of life improvement these are for people even when compared to Uber/Lyft I do underestimate it. What are quality of life improvements? Seems to be the same thing from a customer perspective. I guess if you are concerned for your safety from the uber driver it is an improvement but it is the only one that comes to mind.

I've used Waymo a couple of times now and absolutely find the experience superior.

As mentioned, the driving is sane... with other taxi and taxi-like services that can be hit or miss. But it's more than that.

When I get in taxi I can't help feel like I'm invading the driver's space in some way. The awkward conversations, the awkward silences, the music I'd never choose to listen to on my own, and that list goes on along similar lines; not to mention that many drivers feel like they have to engage in one way or another order to get a decent gratuity I feel more like I'm continuing to be "sold" something after the ride starts. It's just not pleasant.

In a Waymo, I don't feel any of that. I put something I want to listen to on the sound system or just enjoy the ride. Sure, I know there is staff somewhere watching me, but that doesn't bother me nearly so much as being in an incidental, albeit fleeting, social relationship with someone I might not otherwise chose to engage with.

So yes. A self-driving car is my first choice if my pickup/dropoff allows it.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#97
I speak to VCs quite a bit and recently I was hanging around with a bunch of them, they were all making fun of the state of self-driving cars, ah, stupid industry, will never work, whatever.

But to me it's strange, if you go to San Francisco today you can see cars driving around with nobody inside. They drive around, they pick people up, they mostly don't crash into shit. There's nobody behind the wheel. I know that everyone is incredibly quick to point out their flaws and relative safety rating and remote interventions and so on but can we just take a step back, even for a moment, and acknowledge that they freaking did it, they basically did the thing that a lot of people said would never happen - the car drives around all day with nobody inside, of it's own volition!! It's amazing! Am I a deranged silicon valley optimist for thinking this?

I agree that there's still endless work to do, some companies are probably behaving in a way that is dangerous, they aren't half as good as you want them to be, it's not clear whether they are good for society or financially viable etc. etc. but it just seems weird that so few people are willing to be like, "fair play, they basically pulled it off, round of applause", even just for a second.

The only real reason that would make sense to me is if this is actually just a giant fraud and they are driving the things over LTE/4G a much larger fraction of the time than I have been led to believe. Anyone know the realistic ratio of self-driving to remote control? The fact that the safety statistics are 100X worse or whatever is obviously deadly serious but on a scale of six or so orders of magnitude it remains meaningfully impressive to my dumb brain.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#98
post #31

As a resident, I don’t support this at all. Waymos are annoying to have on the road - they go extremely slowly (with good reason) and make weird traffic moves. Do we want our roads getting clogged up with super slow taxis that steal jobs from ordinary people and give them to the tech industry?

This is a complicated comment. Do they really drive that slow... Or just, like, the speed limit? Or generally safe(r) driving speeds? All things equal, slower is safer! Why would roads be anymore clogged than they are already? Because transportation becomes cheaper? So should we jack up fuel prices or insurance prices so there are fewer cars on the road? Real questions. And onto the "stealing jobs" comment... Under t…

As a nitpick that I'm sure varies from state to state... All things can't be equal if you're going slower than the rest of traffic since by definition there's a speed differential relative to the vehicles around you. In drivers-ed in California for example the advice from the dmv is actually to go the speed limit /or/ keep with the flow of traffic. If everyone around you is doing 80 in a 65 zone then you should still speed up at least a little or move into a lane where the flow of traffic is slower. Automated vehicles interestingly are an odd case because no company is going to tell their vehicles to break the law even if social norms encourage otherwise.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#99

Fantastic news. I use them all the time in Phoenix. My mom uses them to get to her doctor appointments. I think people underestimate how much of a quality of life improvement these are for people even when compared to Uber/Lyft.

> people underestimate how much of a quality of life improvement these are for people even when compared to Uber/Lyft I do underestimate it. What are quality of life improvements? Seems to be the same thing from a customer perspective. I guess if you are concerned for your safety from the uber driver it is an improvement but it is the only one that comes to mind.

- Safety: My gf much prefers to Uber/Lyft at night.

- Consistency: You know what you're getting.

- Privacy: Especially nice when traveling with a group.

- Instant pick-up estimate: It can take a while to find a driver with Uber/Lyft, and often the initial estimate is not fulfilled. While Waymo times are generally higher, you know before you press the button what the exact wait time will be.

Re: California Approves Waymo Expansion to Los Angeles and SF Peninsula [pdf]

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people underestimate how much of a quality of life improvement these are for people even when compared to Uber/Lyft I do underestimate it. What are quality of life improvements? Seems to be the same thing from a customer perspective. I guess if you are concerned for your safety from the uber driver it is an improvement but it is the only one that comes to mind.

I don’t need to be given a numeric rating by my chauffeur on how well I sit in the back of a car. The social play-acting part of ridesharing apps became exhausting to me (admittedly: an introvert) sometime during the first ride.

I agree. Not everything in life needs to be a personal interaction. I just want to get from A to B. One of the reasons I like an actually functioning mass transit system is that you just get on and get off. Subways don't rate people (yet) and that is something I think good regulation could enforce here too. The problem is we have a long history of bad regulation when it comes to mass transit so we will see.
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