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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#621
post #606
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the tech really is dangerous then being more closed arguably is in the public's best interest, and this is certainly the reason OpenAI have previously given. Not really. It slows down like security over obscurity. It needs to be open that we know the real risks and we have the best information to combat it. Otherwise, someone who does the same in closed matter, has better chances to get advantage when misusing i…

Just like nuclear weapons? The whole “security through obscurity doesn’t work” is absolute nonsense. It absolutely works and there are countless real world examples. What doesn’t work is relying on that as your ONLY security.

I'm not sure if nuclear weapons are a good example. In the 1940's most of the non-weapons-related nuclear research was public (and that did make certain agencies nervous). That's just how scientists tend to do things.

While the US briefly had unique knowledge about the manufacture of nuclear weapons, the basics could be easily worked out from first principles, especially once schoolchildren could pick up an up-to-date book on atomic physics. The engineering and testing part is difficult, of course, but for a large nation-state stealing the plans is only a shortcut. The on-paper part of the engineering is doable by any team with the right skills. So the main blocker with nuclear weapons isn't the knowledge, it's acquiring the raw fissile material and establishing the industrial base required to refine it.

This makes nuclear weapons a poor analogy for AI, because all you need to develop an LLM is a big pile of commodity GPUs, the publicly available training data, some decent software engineers, and time.

So in both cases all security-through-obscurity will buy you is a delay, and when it comes to AI probably not a very long one (except maybe if you can restrict the supply of GPUs, but the effectiveness of that strategy against China et al remains to be seen).

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#622

> Indeed, as the November 2023 drama was unfolding, Microsoft’s CEO boasted that it would not matter “[i]f OpenAI disappeared tomorrow.” He explained that “[w]e have all the IP rights and all the capability.” “We have the people, we have the compute, we have the data, we have everything.” “We are below them, above them, around them.” Yikes. This technology definitely needs to be open source, especially if we get to t…

I don't trust OpenAI or Microsoft, but I don't have much faith in democratization either. We wouldn't do that with nukes, after all.

> I don't trust OpenAI or Microsoft, but I don't have much faith in democratization either. We wouldn't do that with nukes, after all.

Dangerous things are controlled by the government (in a democracy, a form of democratization). It's bizarre and shows the US government's self-inflicted helplessness that they haven't taken over a project that its founders and developers see as a potential danger to civilization.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#623
Don't usually support Elon Musk at all, but this seems like a great thing to do, even if it is self serving for Elon. AI needs to be open and it's methods available for public scrutiny as it has great potential to stratify society even more so than it currently is between the haves and the have-nots.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#624
post #606
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the tech really is dangerous then being more closed arguably is in the public's best interest, and this is certainly the reason OpenAI have previously given. Not really. It slows down like security over obscurity. It needs to be open that we know the real risks and we have the best information to combat it. Otherwise, someone who does the same in closed matter, has better chances to get advantage when misusing i…

Just like nuclear weapons? The whole “security through obscurity doesn’t work” is absolute nonsense. It absolutely works and there are countless real world examples. What doesn’t work is relying on that as your ONLY security.

As I understand it, the principles behind nuclear weapons are well known and the chief difficulty is obtaining enough highly enriched material.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#625
post #549
post #438

If OpenAI became a non-profit with this in its charter: “resulting technology will benefit the public and the corporation will seek to open source technology for the public benefit when applicable. The corporation is not organized for the private gain of any person" I don't think it is going to be hard to show that they are doing something very different than what they said they were going to do.

Is the charter legally binding? Is it unchangeable? A single quote doesn't tell us much.

Going to the IRS and saying, "This is how we plan to benefit humanity and because of that, we shouldn't have to pay income tax." and then coming back later and saying, "We decided to do the opposite of what we said." is likely to create some problems.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#626
post #618

> Indeed, as the November 2023 drama was unfolding, Microsoft’s CEO boasted that it would not matter “[i]f OpenAI disappeared tomorrow.” He explained that “[w]e have all the IP rights and all the capability.” “We have the people, we have the compute, we have the data, we have everything.” “We are below them, above them, around them.” Yikes. This technology definitely needs to be open source, especially if we get to t…

Works already been done for the most part. Mixtral is to GPT what Linux was to Windows. Mistral AI has been doing such a good job democratizing Microsoft's advantage that Microsoft is beginning to invest in them.

Microsoft just bought off Mistral into no longer releasing open weights and scrubbing all references to them from their site…?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#627

> Indeed, as the November 2023 drama was unfolding, Microsoft’s CEO boasted that it would not matter “[i]f OpenAI disappeared tomorrow.” He explained that “[w]e have all the IP rights and all the capability.” “We have the people, we have the compute, we have the data, we have everything.” “We are below them, above them, around them.” Yikes. This technology definitely needs to be open source, especially if we get to t…

> A powerful technology is a danger to society if only a few people possess it. By giving it to everyone, you even the playing field. Except nukes. Only allies can have nukes.

I guess it you want a nuclear apocalypse then giving the tech to people that would rather see the world end than be "ruled by the apostates", that sounds like a great plan.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#628
Sorry to say it, but nonprofits operate for profit businesses all the time a few different ways. Educational institutions, hospitals, charities, science, public safety, etc all can apply for 501c3. See healthcare orgs like Kaiser Permanente for example, they are 100% for profit 'medical groups'/partnerships, funded by the HQ, which operates under nonprofit status for tax purposes, by following all the laws re: 501c3. The private child operations are not considered part of the 501c3. The profit from the nonprofit parent is reinvested into the company 100%, but the private org 'partnerships' that are not hospitals are definitely for profit. OpenAI.org did the exact same thing. If you have a lot of money in the US, you don't have to pay tax thru creative accounting, which is non-competitive.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#629

> Indeed, as the November 2023 drama was unfolding, Microsoft’s CEO boasted that it would not matter “[i]f OpenAI disappeared tomorrow.” He explained that “[w]e have all the IP rights and all the capability.” “We have the people, we have the compute, we have the data, we have everything.” “We are below them, above them, around them.” Yikes. This technology definitely needs to be open source, especially if we get to t…

> A powerful technology is a danger to society if only a few people possess it. By giving it to everyone, you even the playing field.

That's why we all have personal nukes, of course. Very safe

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#630
post #613

> Indeed, as the November 2023 drama was unfolding, Microsoft’s CEO boasted that it would not matter “[i]f OpenAI disappeared tomorrow.” He explained that “[w]e have all the IP rights and all the capability.” “We have the people, we have the compute, we have the data, we have everything.” “We are below them, above them, around them.” Yikes. This technology definitely needs to be open source, especially if we get to t…

If we get to the point of AGI then it doesn’t matter much; the singularity will inevitably occur and the moment that AGI exists, corporations (and the concept of IP) are obsolete and irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if the gap between AGI existing and the singularity is ten hours, ten weeks, ten months, or ten years.

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