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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#491

Post by SahAssar »

jedberg wrote: post #424
andsoitis wrote: post #26

Many would argue, reasonably so, that OpenAI is now a de facto subsidiary of the largest company in the world by market cap, Microsoft (Apple is second and Saudi Arabian Oil is third).

The value of Saudi Aramco can't really be trusted. It's listed on their own stock market which the company controls. It has no reporting requirements, and the float is a single digit percent of the company. It would be the same as me creating my own market, issuing 10,000,000,000 shares, and then convincing 1000 people to buy a share at $100 and then claiming my company is worth $1T.

Are you arguing for it being undervalued or overvalued or just unknowable? It seems like it was valued at similar figures when it was fully private.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#492

Post by riku_iki »

yaomingite wrote: post #413
WolfeReader wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is no AGI. An AGI is supposed to be the cognitive equivalent of a human, right? The "AI" being pushed out to people these days can't even count.

The AI is multiple programs working together, and they already pass math problems on to a data analyst specialist. There's also an option to use a WolframAlpha plugin to handle math problems. The reason it didn't have math from the start was that it was a solved problem on computers decades ago, and they are specifically demonstrating advances in language capabilities. Machines can handle math, language, graphics, an…

> The AI is multiple programs working together, and they already pass math problems on to a data analyst specialist. There's also an option to use a WolframAlpha plugin to handle math problems.

is quality of this system good enough to qualify for AGI?..

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#493

Post by bcye »

guhidalg wrote: post #461
stickfigure wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand how taxes work. Unprofitable businesses of every sort don't pay income taxes. Startups like OpenAI don't pay income taxes because they don't have income. And investors don't get a writeoff merely for investing in a nonprofit; it's not like a donation to a nonprofit (which would be deductable).

> Startups like OpenAI don't pay income taxes because they don't have income. Where is my $20/month for GPT-4 going then?

probably 2x that in GPU costs

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#494

Post by riku_iki »

pelorat wrote: post #425
WolfeReader wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is no AGI. An AGI is supposed to be the cognitive equivalent of a human, right? The "AI" being pushed out to people these days can't even count.

The only reason humans can count is because we have a short term memory, trivial to add to an LLM to be honest.

LLMs already have short term memory: context window when they predict next token?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#495

Post by Timber-6539 »

WolfeReader wrote: post #262
tw600040 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that AGI, instead of benefitting the whole world, in which Musk is a part of, will end up only benefitting Microsoft, which he isn't a part of?

This is no AGI. An AGI is supposed to be the cognitive equivalent of a human, right? The "AI" being pushed out to people these days can't even count.

The duality of AI's capability is beyond comical. On one side you have people who can't decide whether it can even count, on the other side you have people pushing for UBI because of all the jobs it will replace.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#496

Post by neom »

While researching OpenAI use of unique corporate governance and structures, I found these interesting resources:

OpenAI’s Hybrid Governance: Overcoming AI Corporate Challenges. - https://aminiconant.com/openais-hybrid-governance-overcoming...

Nonprofit Law Prof Blog | The OpenAI Corporate Structure - https://lawprofessors.typepad.com/nonprofit/2024/01/the-open...

AI is Testing the Limits of Corporate Governance (research paper)- https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4693045

OpenAI and the Value of Governance - https://www.glasslewis.com/openai-and-the-value-of-governanc...

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#497

Post by Aloisius »

guhidalg wrote: post #461
stickfigure wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand how taxes work. Unprofitable businesses of every sort don't pay income taxes. Startups like OpenAI don't pay income taxes because they don't have income. And investors don't get a writeoff merely for investing in a nonprofit; it's not like a donation to a nonprofit (which would be deductable).

> Startups like OpenAI don't pay income taxes because they don't have income. Where is my $20/month for GPT-4 going then?

To the for-profit - which pays taxes on net income.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#498

Post by TheKarateKid »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #351
sigmoid10 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Even when we ignore the whole ethical aspect of "AI for benefit of humanity" and all that philosophic stuff, there are very real legal reasons why OpenAI should never have been allowed to switch to for profit. They were only able to circumvent this with their new dual company structure, but this should still not be legal.

The point of their charter is not to make money, it's to develop AI for the benefit of all, which I interpret to mean putting control and exploitation of AI in the hands of the public. The reality: we don't even get public LLM models, let alone source code, while their coffers overfloweth. Awesome for OpenAI and their employees! Every else goes without. Public benefit my arse.

While I completely agree, I think we've seen enough to realize that something as powerful as what OpenAI is developing shouldn't be freely released to the public. Not as a product, nor as source code.

Dangerous and powerful things like weapons and chemicals are restricted in both physical and informational form for safety reasons. AI needs to be treated similarly.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#500

Post by jedberg »

SahAssar wrote: post #491
jedberg wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of Saudi Aramco can't really be trusted. It's listed on their own stock market which the company controls. It has no reporting requirements, and the float is a single digit percent of the company. It would be the same as me creating my own market, issuing 10,000,000,000 shares, and then convincing 1000 people to buy a share at $100 and then claiming my company is worth $1T.

Are you arguing for it being undervalued or overvalued or just unknowable? It seems like it was valued at similar figures when it was fully private.

I think it's unknowable but most likely overvalued. It is in their best interest to convince everyone that it is more highly valued than it is as they try to diversify. Look at the recent investor gathering they had in Florida. People were desperate to get their attention, even people who have strong political disagreements with them. That only happens because everyone assumes they have a lot of money to invest.
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