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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#461

Post by guhidalg »

stickfigure wrote: post #422
siliconc0w wrote: post #248

There is a lot in here but turning a non-profit into a for-profit definitely should be challenged. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone start as a non-profit, develop your IP, and then switch to 'for-profit' mode once you got something that works? You don't pay income taxes and your investors get write offs.

You misunderstand how taxes work. Unprofitable businesses of every sort don't pay income taxes. Startups like OpenAI don't pay income taxes because they don't have income. And investors don't get a writeoff merely for investing in a nonprofit; it's not like a donation to a nonprofit (which would be deductable).

> Startups like OpenAI don't pay income taxes because they don't have income.

Where is my $20/month for GPT-4 going then?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#462

Post by pastacacioepepe »

pleasantpeasant wrote: post #316
jjjjj55555 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this how drugs get developed? Even worse, the research is done using public funds, and then privatized and commercialized later.

This is a huge problem in the US. Tax-payers are subsidizing a lot of medical advances, then the US government gives it to the private sector, privatizing whatever medical advances were paid by tax-dollars. Socialism seems to create a lot of markets for the Capitalist private sector.

[flagged]

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#463

Post by s1artibartfast »

permo-w wrote: post #290
s1artibartfast wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people simply don't understand what non profit means. It doesn't and never meant the entity can't make money. It just means that it can't make money for the donors . Even with open AI, there is a pretty strong argument that donors are not profiting. For example, Elon, one of the founders and main donors won't see a penny from OpenAI work with Microsoft.

what do you mean by "make money"? do you mean "make profit"? or do you mean "earn revenue"? if you mean "make profit", then no, that is simply not true. they have to reinvest the money, and even if it was true, that the government is so weak as to allow companies specifically designated as "non-profit" to profit investors - directly or indirectly - would simply be further proving my point. if you mean "earn revenue",…

I mean make a profit for the non-profit, but not the owner investors.

Non-profits dont need to balance their expenses with revenue. They can maximize revenue, minimize expenses, and grow an ever larger bank account. What they cant do is turn that bank account over to past donors.

Large non-profits can amass huge amounts of cash, stocks, and other assets. Non-profit hospitals, universities, and special interest orgs can have billions of dollars in reserve.

There is nothing wrong with indirectly benefiting the donors. Cancer patients benefit from donating to cancer research. Hospital donors benefit from being patients. University donors can benefit from hiring graduates.

The distinction is that the non-profit does not pay donors cash.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#464

Post by elwell »

AGI is a threat to humanity; so is existing tech: e.g., spending all day staring at various screens (phone, laptop, tv). You can also take the opposite view that AGI will save or expand humanity. It depends on how you define 'humanity'. Page's definition is understandably concerning to Elon, and probably most humans.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#466

Post by sahila »

swozey wrote: post #436
sahila wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liking the environment at Microsoft is very different than liking what the company does. I know far more people excited about space x than whatever Microsoft is doing and none uses any Microsoft products whereas tons of them opted into buying a Tesla! Working at Microsoft is considered easy work whereas it's the opposite for Elon's companies. Doesn't make him a bad person.

> Doesn't make him a bad person. My god. The little apartheid clyde isn't a bad person. Love it. Hows your model 3? Musk gives us "hard" work. We should love being abused because we get to work on rockets! Company towns for everyone! Giga, TX!

I don't understand why you're angry? It's hard to say someone working at Elon's companies are abused; they're talented and could easily quit and get a new job. And Giga is closer to Austin's downtown than Apple's campus in north Austin.

Hope you're well!

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#467

Post by [deleted] »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #398
jjjjj55555 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this how drugs get developed? Even worse, the research is done using public funds, and then privatized and commercialized later.

The research is an inconsequential percentage of the development cost, essentially a rounding error. Those commercial development organizations foot almost the entire bill and take all of the risk.

[deleted]

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#468

Post by breck »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #398
jjjjj55555 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this how drugs get developed? Even worse, the research is done using public funds, and then privatized and commercialized later.

The research is an inconsequential percentage of the development cost, essentially a rounding error. Those commercial development organizations foot almost the entire bill and take all of the risk.

Can you explain more what you mean by this, with some numbers? This is not my understanding, but maybe we are thinking of different things. For example, NIH in 2023 spent over $30B of public funds on research^0, and has been spending in the billions for decades.

[0] https://www.nih.gov/about-nih/what-we-do/budget

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#469

Post by geniium »

TL;DR The document outlines a lawsuit filed by Elon Musk against Samuel Altman, Gregory Brockman, and various OpenAI entities. The complaint includes allegations of breach of contract, promissory estoppel, breach of fiduciary duty, unfair competition, and demands for an accounting and a jury trial. Musk accuses Altman and others of deviating from OpenAI's founding principles, which were supposed to focus on developing Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) for the benefit of humanity and not for profit. The suit details the founding of OpenAI, Musk's significant contributions and involvement, and accuses the defendants of transforming OpenAI into a profit-driven entity contrary to its original mission, thereby violating the foundational agreement.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#470

Post by evanlivingston »

stickfigure wrote: post #422
siliconc0w wrote: post #248

There is a lot in here but turning a non-profit into a for-profit definitely should be challenged. Otherwise why wouldn't everyone start as a non-profit, develop your IP, and then switch to 'for-profit' mode once you got something that works? You don't pay income taxes and your investors get write offs.

You misunderstand how taxes work. Unprofitable businesses of every sort don't pay income taxes. Startups like OpenAI don't pay income taxes because they don't have income. And investors don't get a writeoff merely for investing in a nonprofit; it's not like a donation to a nonprofit (which would be deductable).

This is a great point but has me realizing I don't know how to square this with the idea that quite a few people are making enormous profits from unprofitable businesses.

It feels like there should be a way to tax these startups that exist as vehicles for cash grabs, but are not profitable.

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