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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#411

I find it interesting that there's no mention of private information after ~2020. No whistleblowers, private demos, chats with Altman, or anything not found in mainstream news. Is that required for filing a case, or is Musk operating from the same information as all of us?

I think he had left the organization by 2019?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually NVIDIA just took over Saudi Aramco, but they are sharing 3rd position.

I read this comment as "NVIDIA just took over Saudi Aramco" and was briefly confused in what could possibly be their reasoning for that acquisition?! Perhaps they decided to get some weird lower price on fuel for their gpus.... Anyways it was a brief but fun bit of confusion.

I did too. It's confusing wording. Overtook would be much clearer as someone else mentioned.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that AGI, instead of benefitting the whole world, in which Musk is a part of, will end up only benefitting Microsoft, which he isn't a part of?

This is no AGI. An AGI is supposed to be the cognitive equivalent of a human, right? The "AI" being pushed out to people these days can't even count.

The AI is multiple programs working together, and they already pass math problems on to a data analyst specialist. There's also an option to use a WolframAlpha plugin to handle math problems.

The reason it didn't have math from the start was that it was a solved problem on computers decades ago, and they are specifically demonstrating advances in language capabilities.

Machines can handle math, language, graphics, and motor coordination already. A unified interface to coordinate all of those isn't finished, but gluing together different programs isn't a significant engineering problem.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#415
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to truly make a ton of wealth is to break rules that others follow.

This statement represents the complete disintegration of the optimism that ruled in the 90s and before when we ardently believed that networking and communication amongst people would increase understanding and improve lives by ensuring no one would be cut off from the common wisdom and knowledge of humanity. While robber baron economics certainly appeal to a lot of robber barons, the twentieth century pretty decisiv…

>we ardently believed that networking and communication amongst people would increase understanding and improve lives by ensuring no one would be cut off from the common wisdom and knowledge of humanity

How is this not true?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#416
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't "turn it into" a for-profit though, they created a separate for-profit arm. This one is unusually successful but that's not an unusual thing for even "regular" charities to do in order to engage in some activities that they wouldn't normally be able to.

> in order to engage in some activities that they wouldn’t normally be able to What activities couldn’t they do with their charity arm that required this for-profit arm?

I'm not sure specifically in OpenAI's case but the general answer is any activity that would cause the organization to lose tax-exempt status.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A non-profit took his money and decided to be for profit and compete with the AI efforts of his own companies?

Yeah, OpenAI basically grafted a for-profit entity onto the non-profit to bypass their entire mission. They’re now extremely closed AI, and are valued at $80+ billion. If I donated millions to them, I’d be furious.

> and are valued at $80+ billion. If I donated millions to them, I’d be furious.

Don't get mad; convince the courts to divide most of the nonprofit-turned-for-profit company equity amongst the donors-turned-investors, and enjoy your new billions of dollars.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#418
post #89
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. AGI is an existential threat, but the real meat of this lawsuit is ensuring that you can't let founders have their cake and eat it like this. what's the point of a non-profit if they can simply pivot to making profit the second they have something of value? the answer is that there is none, besides dishonesty. it's quite sad that the American regulatory system is in such disrepair that we could ev…

There is no reliable evidence that AGI is an existential threat, nor that it is even achievable within our lifetimes. Current OpenAI products are useful and technically impressive but no one has shown that they represent steps towards a true AGI.

There's plenty of reliable evidence. It's just not conclusive evidence. But a lot of people including AI researchers now think we are looking at AGI in a relatively short time with fairly high odds. AGI by the OpenAI economic-viability definition might not be far off at all; companies are trying very very hard to get humanoid robots going and that's the absolute most obvious way to make a lot of humans obsolete.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#420

It seems like the lawsuit revolves around a claim that GPT-4 is "AGI." Seems kind of dubious but, of course, when these questions get to courts who knows what will happen.

Could it lead to probing and discovery?...

Discovery is the play here for both GPT4 and Q. It's a win/win for Elon Musk as he will either get money or get the knowledge how it's done/going to be done. I hold an opinion that GPT4 is simply an ensemble of GPT-3's with a bunch of filtering, deployment (for calculating things), and feedback mechanisms with a shitty UI tacked onto it. Q is probably that ensemble plugged into Sora somehow, to help tweak the wisdom understanding of a certain class of problems. That's why they need the GPUs so badly. And, we just saw the paper on quantization of models come out, so it's good timing to bring this claim to bear.

Elon Musk would do well to consider taking Tesla's ability to build hardware and apply it to building ASICs, because without the hardware, no amount of software discovery will net you AGI.

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