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Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

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Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#141

In what capacity is Musk suing OpenAI? Musk may have co-founded the company, but then he left (to avoid any potential future conflict of interest with his role as CEO of Tesla, as Tesla was increasingly becoming an AI-intensive company). Is he a shareholder, if not what gives him any say in the future of the company?

He is suing for breach of agreement, namely the founding agreement that formed OpenAI as a nonprofit.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#142

Has there been a successful suit against a company for "abandoning their founding mission"? Does anyone think that this suit will succeed? Another article: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/mar/01/elon-musk...

> Has there been a successful suit against a company for "abandoning their founding mission"?

Probably depends on how much money the person behind the suit is willing to spend.

Elon could likely push stuff a lot further along than most.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#143
post #58

The cynic in me believes this is motivated by not Musk's love for the "mission", but by xAI, his attempt to build OpenAI's competitor. I'm guessing this is just a way to weaken a competitor.

You're probably right, but either way it will be interesting to see this tested in court. I think it's good to have some extra scrutiny over how OpenAI is operating regardless of the underlying motivations that led to the action!

Ahh, selfish motivations leading to common good as an unintended consequence. Capitalism at work.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#144
The defendant list is a bit bewildering. How usual is a corporate structure like this? Which, if any of these, is the nonprofit?

  OPENAI, INC., a corporation, 
  OPENAI, L.P., a limited partnership, 
  OPENAI, L.L.C., a limited liability company, 
  OPENAI GP, L.L.C., a limited liability company, 
  OPENAI OPCO, LLC, a limited liability company, 
  OPENAI GLOBAL, LLC, a limited liability company, 
  OAI CORPORATION, LLC, a limited liability company, 
  OPENAI HOLDINGS, LLC, a limited liability company,

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#145
post #135

OpenAi is also being investigated by the SEC. If "Altman hadn’t been consistently candid in his communications with the board" is interpreted as being misleading then that could be interpreted as misleading investors and therefore securities fraud. https://www.wsj.com/tech/sec-investigating-whether-openai-in...

Isn’t everything securities fraud though

When the SEC wants it to be, yes.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#146
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the discovery process will benefit Musk and/or harm OpenAI sufficiently to consider it a "win" for Musk. Or perhaps it's just Musk wanting to make a statement. Maybe Musk doesn't expect to actually win the suit.

I wonder if the lawsuit will simply be dismissed.

The standard first move by a defendant is a Motion to Dismiss. So of course they'll try that. Don't read too much into it.

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#147
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he thinks GPT-4 is AGI, Elon should ask a team of GPT-4 bots to design, build and launch his rockets and see how it goes. If “economically valuable work” means creating terrible, wordy blog posts then yeah I guess it’s a risk.

I don’t think GPT-4 is AGI, but that seems like a foolish idea. An AGI doesn’t need to be hyperproficient at everything, or even anything. Ask a team of any non-aeronautical engineers to build a rocket and it will go poorly. Do those people not qualify as intelligent beings?

Outperforming humans does not mean outperforming an average untrained human

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#148

In what capacity is Musk suing OpenAI? Musk may have co-founded the company, but then he left (to avoid any potential future conflict of interest with his role as CEO of Tesla, as Tesla was increasingly becoming an AI-intensive company). Is he a shareholder, if not what gives him any say in the future of the company?

Breach of contract seems to be the major one - from https://www.scribd.com/document/709742948/Musk-vs-OpenAI page 34 has the prayers for relief. B and C seem insane to me, I don't see how a court could decide that. On the other hand, compelling specific performance based on continual reaffirmations of the founding agreement (page 15)...seems viable at a glance. Musk is presumably a party to several relevant contracts, and given his investment and efforts, I could see this going somewhere. (Even if his motivations are in fact to ding Microsoft / spite Altman).

IANAL

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#149
post #129
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I wish you'd prune the users (at least from submission privileges) who can't be bothered to search first, which is how you get these n-fold submissions.

That's impossible. We'd have to prune human nature.

Now that is a startup idea, can I apply to next batch with it?

Re: Elon Musk sues Sam Altman, Greg Brockman, and OpenAI [pdf]

#150
While I have no doubt everything in the complaint is correct, it's hard to see it as Elon being genuinely concerned about open and safe AI vs just having FOMO that he isn't part of it anymore and doesn't get to call the shots. For example his own AI startup is exactly as closed off and unregulated as OpenAI. Why is that not equally concerning?
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