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I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

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Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#161

Post by tptacek »

rremoncake wrote: post #151
j_baker wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect what you're saying, but it's a bit naive. First of all, how do you know that the facts that were mentioned were facts? Were you CC'ed on any of the emails? For all we know, the author made the conversation up. Secondly, nobody really likes hiring someone who speaks negatively about a former employer. Especially when there's no way to verify whether what they are saying is true.

I'd rather not post original emails and screenshots supporting my claims. If verification is demanded by the majority I'll comply.

Don't bother. Hacker News is very likely to raise a cacophony about getting to see "original emails" and "screenshots" because those are dramatic, and people here like drama. You don't owe anyone more drama.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#162

Post by [deleted] »

yoav wrote: post #96

This is like deciding to leave a company and emailing them a month later to make sure their product roadmap is still the same. The bonus was an incentive, which you clearly didn't care about because: a) you forgot about it, and b) you referred your friend who you would have referred anyway Making it "public" now is just vindictive. If you forgetting about your own bonus for months, and then another month after leavin…

[deleted]

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#163

Post by pbiggar »

jasontan wrote: post #10

While this is unfortunate and it sounds like you deserve better (I'd like to hear the other side of the story first), I would discourage against taking this public. This is an issue between you and the founders, and no one else. "Warning" your former Miso coworkers should happen privately -- this post brings them the wrong kind of attention, but they did nothing to deserve it. Future employers who read this post will…

I'm in two minds about this. If I were hiring someone and came across something like this, I would certainly have questions.

On the one hand, he might do this to me. What if he's lying or twisting the truth in some way, or there's more to the story.

On the other hand, fair play for sticking up for his rights. I'd like that mindset on my team.

I think it would come down to the interview, and how he came across. We once interviewed a guy who came across like an asshole online. We asked him about it in the interview, and he did a poor job of defending himself. I think the same approach would work here.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#164

Post by [deleted] »

patio11 wrote: post #150
ajross wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point about illegal retribution is really good. Notice how email #3 walked it right back and came up with an entirely different argument. They knew they screwed up.

Yep. More to the point, when a letter from a lawyer comes in, they're going to ask their lawyer for his opinion, and he is going to say "#$()! Why did you send that!?! That drastically complicates things for me. Just pay the kid or we're going to run up quite the bill fighting him and may yet lose ." (If you don't understand why that email is radioactive, here is a joking-but-not-really exhaustive list of things US c…

[deleted]

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#165

Post by debacle »

justjimmy wrote: post #12
veyron wrote: post #5

"I was entitled to a $10k referral bonus offered by the CEO through internal emails." Can you produce this email? (IANAL)If so you may actually have legal grounds for taking action against Miso ...

IANAL - I am not a lawyer. Just incase there are others like me wondering what the heck that acronym stood for…

On the Internet, IANAL is I am not a lawyer.

On a bumper sticker, it means something completely different...

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#166

Post by jroes »

patio11 wrote: post #113

First step after an employer says no to paying you money owed should ALWAYS be a letter on dead tree saying exactly what your email said, signed by your lawyer. You'll come out $9,700 ahead because folks understand that fobbing off lawyers has consequences. Your lawyer would have printed out email #2 ("You nuked a DB. Screw you."), called it a pretext to deny you rightfully earned wages , and told the company to have…

This is great advice.

I just wanted to make the typical legal fees clear to keep things realistic. I'm not sure if it's the same with this type of case, but for personal injury claims, the typical lawyer contract entitles the attorney to 1/3 of the dollars won plus fees.

Of course, 2/3 of 10k is still > 0.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#168

Post by rdl »

Actually, in California, an employer is penalized if late paying wages after termination of employment. Employee wages continue until they make the payment (this is a little less clear in this case, since it was a referral bonus). (IANAL of course, nor is this legal advice)

I still wouldn't have gone for the "nuclear option" of naming and shaming -- it makes your next employer more wary of hiring you (which probably costs you more than $10k in wages, even though anyone minimally competent can get a job in the current market in the Bay Area), and costs the employer way more than $10k (I doubt any HN readers will blindly trust Miso or the founders, at least for a while).

Just like the namesake, the "nuclear option" is negative sum. I prefer to stick to positive sum games when possible, or zero sum when unavoidable.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#169

Post by jsnell »

unreal37 wrote: post #69
SeanDav wrote: post #63

Notice that Miso is not actually denying that they pay the money: "However, we only pay bonuses to employees." They are being hard-nosed about paying someone that is not employed at the current time, even though he was eligible when he was employed. Fail for Miso.

To be fair, most companies in North America would not pay any sort of optional bonus after an employee has quit or been fired. If you quit Dec 31, and the company usually pays out annual bonuses on Jan 30, don't expect a check.

I've received a bonus for similar circumstances as in this case six months after I left a job (for a patent application reaching a certain milestone, informally announced bonus scheme, no contract in place). I wasn't expecting to ever see that money, so it was a very pleasant surprise.

(The company was Google, which should qualify as an American company even though this happened in Europe. I can't imagine there being any particular Swiss legislation that would have affected this case.)

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#170

Post by rada »

rremoncake wrote: post #31
stephencanon wrote: post #6

The correct response here isn't to air your grievances in public, it's to talk to a lawyer.

I want to emphasize that I don't really care for the money. It's the ethical implications of their decisions that I want to highlight.

For what it's worth, your intentions were clear to anyone who's actually read your post. Good luck, you did the right thing.
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