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I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

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Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#61

Post by underwater »

While publicly posting about this probably feels good, it reflects badly on you as well as Miso.

* The lack of backups is partly your fault. You were an engineer there after all.

* Nuking a production database can happen, but the default assumption is that you are sloppy.

* Based on the timeframes one could assume you were fired from Miso.

* You have no problem revealing confidential information about your former employer's infrastructure and operations.

* You publicly post private emails between you and your former employer.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#62

Post by danilocampos »

rremoncake wrote: post #53
lawrence wrote: post #37

You may want to consider putting the $10K towards a good cause (if Miso eventually steps up), to show it was never about the money. Thanks for sharing. Sounds like Miso may have made a business decision, and you are reminding them of the cost side of that equation.

Any money that comes to me a result of this post goes straight to charity. You guys have my word.

You are under absolutely no obligation to do or say this, but if that's where you want it to go, good for you. I would be equally supportive if you promised to buy a hot tub with the money. You earned that cash.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#63

Post by SeanDav »

Notice that Miso is not actually denying that they pay the money: "However, we only pay bonuses to employees." They are being hard-nosed about paying someone that is not employed at the current time, even though he was eligible when he was employed.

Fail for Miso.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#64

Post by rremoncake »

AznHisoka wrote: post #52
jasontan wrote: post #10

While this is unfortunate and it sounds like you deserve better (I'd like to hear the other side of the story first), I would discourage against taking this public. This is an issue between you and the founders, and no one else. "Warning" your former Miso coworkers should happen privately -- this post brings them the wrong kind of attention, but they did nothing to deserve it. Future employers who read this post will…

I agree. It sounds like the OP wants some attention, even if he claims he's doing it for the public service. His ego is bruised, he just wants to recover from it.

Yes. I do want some attention. But really, I think anyone here can see that I have a lot more to lose here than to gain. If this was a matter of pride I'd leave it as a Facebook post for my friends and call it a day. To me, this is the right thing to do, not the smart thing. Unfortunately the two don't necessary come in pairs.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#65

Post by unreal37 »

rb2k_ wrote: post #35

Honestly, the answers that the Miso founders gave seemed very professional and I think am a bit on their side in this one. If OP had asked for the bonus while still being at Miso, it seems like he would simply have gotten it. Seeing as a non-contractual bonus is an investment in the employee that the company does in addition to the usual compensation, and seeing as OP quit on his own and doesn't have a compensation a…

I tend to agree with @rb2k. There are payments you are entitled to by law (salary, vacation, personal expense reimbursement) and payments that companies do out of the goodness of their hearts (annual bonuses, lieu days, extra days off, referral bonuses). Don't quit under bad circumstances and expect to get money you're not by law entitled to. Should have gotten the money first.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#66

Post by scott_w »

rb2k_ wrote: post #46
chasing wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really how it works. If it's in an e-mail, it's a contract. Me: "Hey, if you do X I'll give you $10k." You: [Does X.] "Can I have my $10k?" Me: "Nah, the moment's passed. I'm not really feeling it anymore." Nope. That's sleazy behavior.

As long as the email isn't as fully formulated as an actual contract I usually tend to see them more as a declaration of an intent that isn't 100% fixed yet and is missing some of the details. (such as: you won't get it after you decided to quit and work somewhere else). That's usually the nice thing about startups, you don't have to fill out gobs of paperwork and have hours of meetings to get these small perks figur…

There are four elements of a contract: Offer - "Have $10k for referring employees." Acceptance - "Here is an employee." Intent - "Have $10k" Consideration - "$10k" -> "refer employee"

The OP's case is even stronger if he sent an email back saying "Thanks for offering $10k! I have a friend who would be interested!" as that is clear acceptance.

Signatures aren't needed (there's plenty of case law around). Courts are more likely to get involved where money is involved, as that shows firm commitment to a contract.

I am not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, of course.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#67

Post by koeselitz »

rb2k_ wrote: post #46
chasing wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really how it works. If it's in an e-mail, it's a contract. Me: "Hey, if you do X I'll give you $10k." You: [Does X.] "Can I have my $10k?" Me: "Nah, the moment's passed. I'm not really feeling it anymore." Nope. That's sleazy behavior.

As long as the email isn't as fully formulated as an actual contract I usually tend to see them more as a declaration of an intent that isn't 100% fixed yet and is missing some of the details. (such as: you won't get it after you decided to quit and work somewhere else). That's usually the nice thing about startups, you don't have to fill out gobs of paperwork and have hours of meetings to get these small perks figur…

I agree that a lot of this stuff is informal, especially in the startup world. However, as far as actual legal implications go, this counts as a contract. It would even count as a contract if it were spoken; verbal contracts hold as much legal weight as paper contracts. I think we all value the relaxed atmosphere in smaller tech companies, but it's very much worth remembering, I think, that emails like this have weight, and promises are promises even when the company is small. There's a certain level on which we have to maintain professionalism even if we're small and dynamic.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#68

Post by pavel_lishin »

rb2k_ wrote: post #46
chasing wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really how it works. If it's in an e-mail, it's a contract. Me: "Hey, if you do X I'll give you $10k." You: [Does X.] "Can I have my $10k?" Me: "Nah, the moment's passed. I'm not really feeling it anymore." Nope. That's sleazy behavior.

As long as the email isn't as fully formulated as an actual contract I usually tend to see them more as a declaration of an intent that isn't 100% fixed yet and is missing some of the details. (such as: you won't get it after you decided to quit and work somewhere else). That's usually the nice thing about startups, you don't have to fill out gobs of paperwork and have hours of meetings to get these small perks figur…

> As long as the email isn't as fully formulated as an actual contract I usually tend to see them more as a declaration of an intent that isn't 100% fixed yet and is missing some of the details.

Does this mean I can ignore these four e-mails from my boss that formulates his intent for me to work on X and Y, and skip on off to work on Z instead?

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#69

Post by unreal37 »

SeanDav wrote: post #63

Notice that Miso is not actually denying that they pay the money: "However, we only pay bonuses to employees." They are being hard-nosed about paying someone that is not employed at the current time, even though he was eligible when he was employed. Fail for Miso.

To be fair, most companies in North America would not pay any sort of optional bonus after an employee has quit or been fired.

If you quit Dec 31, and the company usually pays out annual bonuses on Jan 30, don't expect a check.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#70

Post by bking »

Miso should just pony up the $10k and move on.

1. They promised you would get the bonus at 6 months, and THEY did not deliver (their fault for not keeping their written agreement). -- They were in the red before you left. You are just collecting on their past dues.

2. They didn't have a backup before production and you happened to blow it up. You woked hard and recovered most of the data. (their fault for not having a backup) -- Kudos to you for fessing up that you screwed up, but everyone does that and it is their fault for not having a backup

3. You confronted them about their debt, and they tried to find "sneaky language" that sounds like a solid reason to not pay you for your service. (their fault for shady business)

Sounds to me like they are trying to kill two birds with one stone by using a made up on the spot loophole to save $10k and bury a mistake they made in not fulfilling their pledge.

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