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I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

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121–130 of 391 posts

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#121
post #93

It looks like I'm the only one here that's stunned by the chutzpah of asking for a referral bonus after accidentally nuking the production DB, and costing the company a lot of time and effort to recover it, while on your way out the door for a better opportunity. Regardless of whether or not Miso is right to evade their promise of a bonus, I'm not so quick to heap sympathy upon rremoncake. This certainly isn't the ki…

Aren't these separate incidents? Miso is benefiting from this employee referral, after all.

Exactly, coupling those incidents is, if not intellectually dishonest, at least intellectually sloppy.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#122
post #63

Notice that Miso is not actually denying that they pay the money: "However, we only pay bonuses to employees." They are being hard-nosed about paying someone that is not employed at the current time, even though he was eligible when he was employed. Fail for Miso.

To be fair, most companies in North America would not pay any sort of optional bonus after an employee has quit or been fired. If you quit Dec 31, and the company usually pays out annual bonuses on Jan 30, don't expect a check.

You didn't seem to understand the post. You have it backwards.

It's more like that you had a personal bonus scheduled for Dec 31, and your last day was the next Jan 30, and they never paid you.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, most companies in North America would not pay any sort of optional bonus after an employee has quit or been fired. If you quit Dec 31, and the company usually pays out annual bonuses on Jan 30, don't expect a check.

More to the point: Quit Dec 1st, don't expect a Christmas bonus.

No, more to the point: quit Jan 1st, but before you got your Christmas bonus due to some silly delay.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#124
Frankly, at this point it's beyond the money.

Any time you see this, you can be pretty much guaranteed that it's entirely about the money and nothing more. If you want to prove to yourself that it's about principle of exposing poor business ethics, then give some or all of the money to a total stranger (or a charity) when you get it. Not going to happen? Then you're not really in it for the principle.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#126

Taking this "public" seems like a lose-lose. Miso doesn't come off super awesome obviously, but as a disgruntled employee, you're not setting yourself up for success either. For example, should some future employer decide to Google your name before making an offer, they're likely to come up with an old spat between you and your employer. Even if you're in the right, it will make them think twice about hiring you. Thi…

Otherwise what you are saying is to be afraid of the status quo because they have many ways of monitoring your past so you should behave, isn't it? If your 'future employer' gets biased by this kind of stuff then it would make sense to reconsider applying for work there, and whether it is really worth it to keep on supporting such kinds of disciplinary systems. What he is claiming sounds reasonable, and there should be no lose-lose when facts are facts.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#127
post #78

I'd like to point out something: I'm pretty sure the OP is smart enough to know this move could cost him dearly in the future. He's basically setting himself at the 'stake', next to Miso, with his post. This is why we have to pay a bit more attention than just dismissing his claim and label him childish. Doesn't matter who's right/wrong, the OP felt this was an issue worth risking his rep for (just by posting, he's a…

Even saying that it could cost him seems like empty threats from the peanut gallery. On what basis, that someone might not want to hire him because they plan to rip him off?

as someone who has been in charge of tech hiring for a startup, this would definitely not be a red flag for me. as you say, it's not like we would be planning on ripping him off, and blacklisting him for what is after all nothing more than human disgruntlement over getting screwed would be petty and childish.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#128
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even saying that it could cost him seems like empty threats from the peanut gallery. On what basis, that someone might not want to hire him because they plan to rip him off?

Someone might not want to hire him because they see his behavior as vindictive and immature. Not that I agree with that analysis, but there is a risk of that perception.

How big of a risk, do you think?

The point I'm driving at is that this is (obviously) seen to be taboo behavior, but I'm not sure that anybody would find this and visit repercussions upon the author.

Additionally, a lot of the taboo might be based on "word getting around." Well, how many times have you heard of management badmouthing people to other companies? Ever? I'm not sure the blacklist implied in some of these responses actually exists.

Furthermore, there has been plenty of bad management to go around, and publicizing their faults has not affected hardly any of their careers. In fact, it can be seen as a badge of experience to have presided over a failure. Experience is experience, after all, and might you want to hire a developer who has learned the hard lesson of not keeping backups? A lot of companies (including Miso, apparently) could use talent like that.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#129

Ugh. I had someone not pay me $9k, and have filed a lawsuit. We're closing in on 4 years now (aug 2008) and still no court date. Courts take time. I wrestled with 'name and shame', and in some respect, wish I had named. I found out that this company/person had done this to others, and one of the guys 'named' him publicly on a blog. He got a threatening call, telling him to take it down and he'd get paid. Of course, h…

Thanks for sharing your personal experience with this, I've also been through similar things.

On the "take it down and he'd get paid" issue, one has to be very careful. There have been a few news stories where this has happened, the ex-employee agrees, and then the company goes public with a "employee was attempting to extort $10,000 from us" angle, painting the employee they cheated as some sort of criminal. The spin is they try to make it seem like the bad report was false and the employee was extorting money to take it down as some kind of protection racket.

Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k

#130
"Name and shame" is a thorny issue.

Opponents are right in the same way you shouldn't badmouth former employers in job interviewers. It's not fair but it makes you look worse. You just kind of have to suck it up and move on.

When companies screw you out of money, you should name and shame them (IMHO). Trust me, over the years I've probably lost out on all told $50,000 or more that people never paid. In some cases it was a clear breach of contract. I never pursued it through litigation and reading stories from those that have I'm kinda glad. Such a thing is a mental burden and a distraction. Your best bet really is to move on unless the amount is really huge (maybe even $50,000+ for a single claim).

All that being said, this scenario is not one the company should be ashamed of IMHO and were I Miso I wouldn't have said a damn thing about it.

He forgot to claim a referral bonus. They didn't pay it after he left the company. Technically, they are correct: referral bonuses are paid to employees. He is not an employee.

Sure they could've paid it to him and maybe they should've but I sympathize with their position.

No matter what anyone tells you--and this is important--when you get a bonus of any sort it is forward-looking even though it's for what you've done. If you've left the company or are leaving, you are no longer of value to them.

If he's made the claim and pushed back on it finally reneging, that would be a completely different story.

This is a textbook example of "nothing to gain" and "makes you look bad" rolled into one.

EDIT: to answer one point brought up by a commentor (chasing): yes, you are correct. This is not a bonus in the strictest sense.

It is not however automatic compensation like your salary is. You need to take action to claim it (by submitting the form or whatever to get the referral bonus). Miso admits he did not do that. He is no longer an employee and thus can't file forms an employee otherwise would.

I imagine if this were a case where he expensed something and failed to claim the expenses the employer would pay. From this you can (reasonably) view the two as similar. The difference (IMHO) is that if an employer doesn't pay outstanding expenses, you may continue to own or you have a pretty cut-and-dried case against them for breach of contract.

Failing to file a referral bonus form while you were an employee is really your fault.

I'm not saying the employer is completely in the right here but honestly I think they're more right than he is and certainly come out of this looking better than he does.

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