I appreciate you doing this and I hope my employees would do the same if I were to act unethically in any future startup. There's a million sociopathic megalomaniacal assholes in Silicon Valley and that won't change unless people fight back.
I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
101–110 of 391 posts
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#102[deleted]
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#103Honestly, the answers that the Miso founders gave seemed very professional and I think am a bit on their side in this one. If OP had asked for the bonus while still being at Miso, it seems like he would simply have gotten it. Seeing as a non-contractual bonus is an investment in the employee that the company does in addition to the usual compensation, and seeing as OP quit on his own and doesn't have a compensation a…
I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't this fall under "promissory estoppel"?
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#104Thank you for posting this. As a community of entrepreneurs and hackers it helps all of us know what happens behind the scenes. Some people may view it as airing their dirty laundry but I see it as a way to keep people honest. The fact that you dropped the production database sucks. However you stayed around and fixed it. I can't really say anything more. My bet is we all handle lots of sensitive data around here. Ou…
Based on the post, it doesn't sound like he stuck around and fixed it.
To set the record straight I stuck around to fix it.
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not really how it works. If it's in an e-mail, it's a contract. Me: "Hey, if you do X I'll give you $10k." You: [Does X.] "Can I have my $10k?" Me: "Nah, the moment's passed. I'm not really feeling it anymore." Nope. That's sleazy behavior.
the email could have said 10k for _current_ employees or something to that effect. i am also leaning towards siding with the founders here, not knowing all the facts. how much time and productivity did it cost the company when this employee lost the data? more or less than 10k? either side of it, does it really make sense to hand someone a 10k bonus after they made a major mistake and then quit shortly after?
It's two separate issues. Sounds like they owe him $10k.
If they also want to pursue a lawsuit over his data screw-up, they should. But that's unrelated.
(I think such a suit would be tossed, given his screw-up seems to be based upon Miso not having suitable back-ups, which: The fuck?)
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#106Honestly, the answers that the Miso founders gave seemed very professional and I think am a bit on their side in this one. If OP had asked for the bonus while still being at Miso, it seems like he would simply have gotten it. Seeing as a non-contractual bonus is an investment in the employee that the company does in addition to the usual compensation, and seeing as OP quit on his own and doesn't have a compensation a…
> Seeing as a non-contractual bonus is an investment in the employee that the company does in addition to the usual compensation
A bonus isn't a gift or an investment: it's paid to compensate for going above and beyond the call of duty. In this case, he did so by delivering a referral. He should be paid, plain and simple.
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not really how it works. If it's in an e-mail, it's a contract. Me: "Hey, if you do X I'll give you $10k." You: [Does X.] "Can I have my $10k?" Me: "Nah, the moment's passed. I'm not really feeling it anymore." Nope. That's sleazy behavior.
As long as the email isn't as fully formulated as an actual contract I usually tend to see them more as a declaration of an intent that isn't 100% fixed yet and is missing some of the details. (such as: you won't get it after you decided to quit and work somewhere else). That's usually the nice thing about startups, you don't have to fill out gobs of paperwork and have hours of meetings to get these small perks figur…
> But I guess I just have a different opinion when it comes to things that don't have 2 signatures at the bottom of them.
Well, your opinion is certainly different than the judiciary's opinion of what constitutes a contract, for sure.
A contract need not be written (usually, some exceptions apply). It need only be clear and agreed to by both sides, have some consideration involved and not be against public policy.
If you as a startup owner promise people even verbally that referrals get a bonus, you're creating a binding contract if anyone accepts it. In this case it appears it was written down, which is pretty much a slam dunk for the employee.
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not really how it works. If it's in an e-mail, it's a contract. Me: "Hey, if you do X I'll give you $10k." You: [Does X.] "Can I have my $10k?" Me: "Nah, the moment's passed. I'm not really feeling it anymore." Nope. That's sleazy behavior.
As long as the email isn't as fully formulated as an actual contract I usually tend to see them more as a declaration of an intent that isn't 100% fixed yet and is missing some of the details. (such as: you won't get it after you decided to quit and work somewhere else). That's usually the nice thing about startups, you don't have to fill out gobs of paperwork and have hours of meetings to get these small perks figur…
what you don't realise is that this sort of thing jeopardises the very "nice thing about startups" that you are (rightly) approving here. if the idea that you couldn't rely on someone's word seeped into the startup culture, people would start getting a lot more insistent on i-dotting and t-crossing, and pretty much no one would benefit from the concomitant rise in hostility.
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#109Notice that Miso is not actually denying that they pay the money: "However, we only pay bonuses to employees." They are being hard-nosed about paying someone that is not employed at the current time, even though he was eligible when he was employed. Fail for Miso.
To be fair, most companies in North America would not pay any sort of optional bonus after an employee has quit or been fired. If you quit Dec 31, and the company usually pays out annual bonuses on Jan 30, don't expect a check.
It wasn't an optional bonus thou, it was owed money as a referral fee
Re: I'm a former Miso engineer and the founders screwed me out of 10k
#110Notice that Miso is not actually denying that they pay the money: "However, we only pay bonuses to employees." They are being hard-nosed about paying someone that is not employed at the current time, even though he was eligible when he was employed. Fail for Miso.
To be fair, most companies in North America would not pay any sort of optional bonus after an employee has quit or been fired. If you quit Dec 31, and the company usually pays out annual bonuses on Jan 30, don't expect a check.
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