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Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

overkill.wtf

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Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be amazing if Valve stepped up with legal funds/protection there. They do get money from people buying SteamDecks for emulation and well... free publicity if they take on Nintendo.

Valve doesn't really benefit that much financially from emulation though. Steam deck profit margins are probably razor thin given the cost of the competition (many of whom are in China on top of it all).

Doesn't Valve actually have an enormous interest in emulation? Their steam deck and linux gaming ecosystem is completely dependent on WINE and Proton.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Piracy *is* stealing. Sure, you may not have taken away money from Nintendo’s bank account by coercion/force/whatever, but the company and its employees have partaken into an effort to produce something of obvious value to you, for which they are asking for compensation for you to be able to enjoy, and you’re choosing to skirt this understanding so that you can enjoy their work without compensating them for it. Yeah,…

No, piracy is piracy, thats why we use that specific word.

Pirates steal. That’s why they call them pirates.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#673
post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well obviously you need to not use the same usernames/emails with your other identities. What does that have to do with IP addresses?

The topic of the thread was hiding your identity from litigious corporations of which only a part of that is hiding your IP. THAT was the point but thanks for being the thread police and a conversation killer. Next time if I want to digress a little I'll run it past you first.

I hope Nintendo can't get the FBI to hunt down software devlopers.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a device's only use involves copyright infringement, it's illegal to sell or distribute in the USA. That's how they went after cable descramblers and, less successfully, VCRs in the 80s. Since getting actual Switch game data necessarily involves violating the DMCA, Nintendo's lawyers will have an easy time showing that the only way yuzu can be useful is if the user violates copyright law, thus making the emulator…

> Since getting actual Switch game data necessarily involves violating the DMCA, None of that is related to Yuzu though, Yuzu can only play what you give it. And no I disagree, the fastest way for me to deplop a switch game is to use an emulator such as Yuzu, it's a much faster feedback loop than a devkit and I'm sure there's a lot of indie games developped or tested this way. So there's also other purposes to this s…

> None of that is related to Yuzu though, Yuzu can only play what you give it.

But if it's only useful when you illegally infringe copyright, its creators could be found civilly liable for such violation.

I did some looking into this case. Nintendo's lawyers appear to be attempting a novel legal argument: they are composing the DMCA with the doctrine of contributory copyright infringement. Under the latter doctrine, purveyors of a device (or software) can be found liable for copyright infringement even if they didn't commit the infringement themselves, if it can be found that the device is only useful for such infringement. Where the DMCA comes in is, Nintendo is arguing that despite not being a copyright circumvention tool in its own right, Yuzu is only useful for playing games whose DRM has been circumvented; therefore distributing it is an offense of trafficking in circumvention technology under the DMCA. It's not really clear whether the courts will accept this interpretation, but if circumvention is "copyright infringement", then the doctrine of contributory infringement could well apply.

It tends not to matter in courts if using an emulator is better than using a devkit (personally I concede that it may well be, especially early in the development cycle). Because the devkit option is available to you provided you pay for a license, and because not paying for such a license is not a legitimate option for Switch development, the courts are not likely to look at Yuzu as legitimate software for non-infringing Switch development. There was that court case involving illegal DVD decryption where the judge, upon hearing the defendant argue that they just wanted to play DVDs on Linux, stated that that was not a legitimate reason for circumventing DVD encryption because they could have played those DVDs on a Windows machine.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#676

This is unfortunate. The switch is probably coming to the end of its life soon. As soon as Nintendos next gen (announced or not) console is released, the switch will be a legacy system and emulation is important for archiving purposes. This does make it less likely that i'll be buying any Nintendo products in the future.

I suspect that the "Switch 2" is going to be like the GameCube -> Wii, where the hardware is backward compatible and largely just a faster version of the previous generation. Essentially being a suped-up Switch means Yuzu could immediately work much better with whatever they come out with next. I think that is why they are going after Yuzu now, to try and get ahead of another Dolphin situation occurring much earlier…

has nvidia worked on the architecture behind the tegra in the last few years? i'm not certain that's possible tbh

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#677
post #345

What did Yuzu expect? If they’re going to challenge a company of Nintendo’s stature in this manner, then they should be prepared for legal war. And what’s Nintendo supposed to do here? Most here would do the same thing if they were in Nintendo’s shoes. They have employees to pay. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.

Threatening a multi billion dollar company by making an emulator that contains zero infringing code? Give me a break. Nintendo needs to be squashed in court and brought back down to earth.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#678

Lawyers always kill the fun. Piracy and emulation is still legal in many other countries, however. Emulator projects should always be hosted in piracy-friendly nations. https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/comments/b6rpzx/here_are_som...

Emulation is legal in the US. Nintendo deserves to have their games pirated over this anti consumer overreach.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To get standing you must show you were harmed in some way and that the court can remedy that harm. That is just one of many parts of the standing test that a federal court will apply. Not in copyright cases. You have to show harm for actual damages, but copyright has statutory damages: you only need to demonstrate a violation of the law (the copyright statutes) for damages [1]: > In all countries where the Berne Co…

Are you aware of any precedent that "enabling" copyright infringement is tantamount to copyright infringement? Copyright obviously protects against the retransmittal of the copyrighted work. If Yuzu hasn't done that, it isn't guilty of copyright infringement. Instead, Nintendo is arguing that if Yuzu didn't exist, fewer people would have committed copyright infringement. That in itself is not a copyright claim.

> Are you aware of any precedent that "enabling" copyright infringement is tantamount to copyright infringement?

Short answer, I'm not aware of precedent prohibiting emulation on the grounds of "enabling" copyright infringement the way an emulator does. But even in the US with fair use, I don't think emulation is always legal, and regardless Nintendo doesn't really need to demonstrate copyright infringement because simply suing would be enough to burden emulator developers with legal fees. See the UltraHLE emulator situation [5]. (Tangent: In Japan, there is no fair use, so I think the harm of emulation to Nintendo's sales would be enough to violate some kind of copyright law in Japan.)

The rest of this comment (the long answer-but-not-really-an-answer) is mostly spitballing on my part.

> Copyright obviously protects against the retransmittal of the copyrighted work. If Yuzu hasn't done that, it isn't guilty of copyright infringement. Instead, Nintendo is arguing that if Yuzu didn't exist, fewer people would have committed copyright infringement. That in itself is not a copyright claim.

Here is the closest situation I'm aware of. In the US, there were criminal and civil cases against Team Xecutor, who made devices and software capable of circumventing the Nintendo Switch's measures against running unauthorized copies of games [1]:

> In September 2020, Canadian national Gary Bowser and French national Max "MAXiMiLiEN" Louarn were arrested for designing and selling "circumvention devices", specifically products to circumvent Nintendo Switch copy protection, and were named, along with Chinese citizen Yuanning Chen, in a federal indictment filed in U.S. District Court in Seattle, WA on August 20, 2020.[3] Each of the three men named in the indictment faced 11 felony counts, including conspiracy to commit wire fraud, conspiracy to circumvent technological measures and to traffic in circumvention devices, trafficking in circumvention devices, and conspiracy to commit money laundering.[4] Bowser handled public relations for the group, which has been in operation since "at least" 2013.[1][5]

The legal basis of the anti-circumvention criminal cases seemed to have been based on DMCA 1201 [2] (a statute prohibiting circumvention of technical protection measures [3] against access to copyrighted digital data/works/software), even if the purpose of the circumvention is not for actual copyright infringement), but the judge and the US Department of Justice took the estimated financial damages very seriously [4]:

> The public face of a notorious video game piracy group was sentenced today to 40 months in prison for two federal felonies, announced U.S. Attorney Nick Brown. Gary Bowser, 52, a Canadian national of Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, pleaded guilty in October 2021 to Conspiracy to Circumvent Technological Measures and to Traffic in Circumvention Devices, and Trafficking in Circumvention Devices. At the sentencing hearing U.S. District Judge Robert S. Lasnik said, “These are serious criminal offenses with real victims and harm to the community.”

> “This piracy scheme is estimated to have caused more than $65 million in losses to video game companies,” said U.S. Attorney Nick Brown. “But the damage goes beyond these businesses, harming video game developers and the small, creative studios whose products and hard work is essentially stolen when games are pirated.”

What if there's no circumvention involved, like in the case of an emulator? Then DMCA 1201 doesn't apply. However, what about the effect of emulation on Nintendo's sales? If you can't mod a Nintendo Switch you bought to play unauthorized copies of Switch games regardless of whether you bought authorized copies, then why should you be able to use an emulator, which might as well be a modded Nintendo Switch in terms of harm to Nintendo's revenue? is something I think Nintendo could convince courts about.

Nintendo definitely believes that emulation which affects Nintendo's revenue should be treated as copyright infringement. Nintendo threatened a lawsuit against UltraHLE, a Nintendo 64 emulator [5]:

> Nintendo's response and UltraHLE's discontinuation

> Also notable for its time, UltraHLE was capable of playing commercial games while the console was still commercially viable, a feat which was ultimately noticed by Nintendo. In February 1999, Nintendo began the process of filing a lawsuit against the emulator's authors, along with the website hosting the emulator.[6] Speaking to PC Zone, Nintendo representative Beth Llewellwyn commented: "Nintendo is very disturbed that RealityMan and Epsilon have widely distributed a product designed solely to play infringing copies of copyrighted works developed by Nintendo and its third-party licensees. We are taking measures to further protect and enforce our intellectual property rights which, of course, includes the bringing of legal action."[7] Despite this, UltraHLE had grown beyond either its authors' or Nintendo's control. Subsequently, Epsilon and RealityMan abandoned their pseudonyms and went silent.[8]

I don't think copyright lawsuits in the US give a defendant an early dismissal opportunity for demonstrating that the defendant's emulator doesn't actually facilitate copying in anyway, so all Nintendo needs to do is sue to bankrupt the defendant with legal fees or to incentivize the defendant to agree to a settlement.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Xecuter

[2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_protection

[4] https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/public-voice-and-princi...

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UltraHLE#Nintendo's_response_a...

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get out of here. Seriously? I’ve been playing older system games pretty well on it but switch felt like it would be too much a load.

Emu Deck is the quickest way to set up emulation. The rest requires google. Not all games are stable/playable/without glitches. Mario Galaxy Wii + HD texture packs look like its from 2025 compared to the re-release on the Switch.

Got this set up and I have to say I am really stunned by how good it emulates switch.
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