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Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

overkill.wtf

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Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a owner of previous modded Nintendo consoles - they certainly don’t share your view

Yeah, you might as well pirate it, that's just as bad in their view. Same with ripping DVDs/Blu-rays, it's illegal to rip them anyway, so might as well just download them. Especially now that they're suing emulator developers, it's almost unethical to buy Switch games anymore.

Here in France, as far as I know I have a right to private copy, which I pay for through a specific tax whenever I buy storage. I can rip my DVDs, Blu-rays, or even Nintendo Switch cartridges or hard drive, perfectly legally, even if it means cracking open the thing and circumvent stuff. It's awfully less convenient than downloading the stuff, but it is legal. Or at least it was 20 years ago, but I'm not aware of any change on that front.

Now there should be some ground rule. When you buy something, it's supposed to be yours, and you should be allowed to do what you want with it, especially studying it and sharing the results of your study. Any rule that allows some big corporation to retain power over something that's supposed to be yours is serious overreach and should be shut down.

Now Nintendo does have a big problem here: without the exclusivity of their form factor (which is arguably difficult to improve upon[1]), all they have left is the exclusivity of their game library.

[1]: https://loup-vaillant.fr/articles/ideal-computer

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#522

Things like this and companies like Nintendo must be stopped, it's both morally and legally correct to emulate when people actually owns the machine and cartridges.

Disagreed. I'm guessing that 99.99% of Switch emulator users do not own the cartridges. They're stealing, which is not only morally wrong, but legally wrong. Nintendo has the right to protect their IP and they have the right to make money. Furthermore, I disagree in general that it's morally and legally correct to emulate something you purchased.

By this logic we need to block Kodi, Plex, hell computers as someone might use them to download something instead of buying it.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#523
post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you consider them responsible for not doing a thorough enough license audit of every company that publishes Switch games or something. That's the thing with closed platform, you can't have your cake and it too.

They can if software is licensed under MIT or a similar "permissive" licence. In this case the software was correctly licensed under GPL, though.

Nintendo was not involved. Mistic Software ported Windows/Mac computer games to Wii using ScummVM, a virtual machine program under the GPL 2.0 or later license at the time (now 3.0 or later), without crediting the ScummVM team [1]:

> In December 2008, the ScummVM team learned that the recently released Wii ports of three Humongous Entertainment Junior Adventure titles, Freddi Fish and the Case of the Missing Kelp Seeds, Pajama Sam: No Need to Hide When It's Dark Outside, and Spy Fox: Dry Cereal, have all used the ScummVM engine without proper attribution. The games were published on request of Atari through Majesco Entertainment, who turned to Mistic Software to port the games. Mistic had used ScummVM for these, but failed to credit the developers. While the ScummVM team contacted gpl-violations.org for legal advice, Atari instead threatened to sue the ScummVM team, as the terms of Nintendo Wii development kit heavily restricted the use of open source software, including the GPL. A settlement was made in 2009, in which ScummVM would drop the investigation of the GPL violation, on the condition that Mistic would sell or destroy all GPL-violating copies of the games, make a donation to the Free Software Foundation, and pay the legal fees. As a result, this legal dispute significantly limited the availability of the Wii ports of these three titles.[1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ScummVM#Mistic's_GPL_violation...

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need some sort of legal entity to receive the money, with ties to some real persons. It makes some corp. going after you so much easier, compared to trying to get to 'rightbyte' or 'judge2020' for doing git commits.

Not the best idea to try to get around lawsuits by simply staying anonymous. Nintendo can sue GitHub and you as a John Doe to compel GitHub to give up all info it has on you, like IP address access logs (which can then be used to compel your ISP to hand over their records on you).

Maybe but you added a ton of red tape between you and Nintendo. Staying semi-anonymous when also committing no actual crime is likely a really good filter versus lawsuits.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#525
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downloading a file and putting in on a Steam Deck seems easier than working for ~3 hours then purchasing a Nintendo game.

Yeah, why pay for something, if you can also simply download/steal it? Something which took a lot of work to make? Reading comments like this I can almost understand Nintendos stance on emulation. Suing the emulator team is certainly not the right thing to do, but come on. At least pay for the game if you are not paying for the console.

its not stealing it is copyright infringement

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think MyFedora is suggesting that even if Yuzu's primary usecase is piracy, that's because it's so difficult to use Yuzu in the legit manner (due to Nintendo's DRM on the console/game you own).

I feel like it would be a lot more straightforward if people just came out and said that they think piracy should be legal. Currently we have this weird mealy-mouthed roundabout discussions where people act ever so outraged at the idea that a tool or site is primarily used for piracy when anyone who's not hopelessly naïve recognizes that that's in fact what they're used for. At best we get comments like yours that ar…

> I feel like it would be a lot more straightforward if people just came out and said that they think piracy should be legal.

I don't believe piracy should be legal. I believe that copyright and trademarks are important for the creation of many types of interesting new works in society.

Nonetheless, I also think archiving history and having those archives (in their original format, to the closest degree possible, which is what many emulators try to achieve) widely accessible to the public is also important.

Flash memory in game cartridges degrade over time, and discs rot as well. In contrast to some here, I do not think DRM is inherently bad — preventing piracy can be important — but I do believe that DRM should be time limited. After about 10 to 15 years, I think one should be able to have a DRM-free version of whatever piece of media they purchased, be it a game, movie, TV show, etc. At that point, the console (or other device) should allow you to rip it and transfer those DRM-free files to other devices.

I don't think those files should be legally redistributable online (at least not after only one decade), but many users' consoles will break before the 10 year mark, and many consoles are not sold for more than 10 years at a time. I think requiring much more than roughly that amount of time before allowing DRM-free rips will just result in a lot of consumers not being able to play the games they purchased. I think legalizing piracy would destroy the gaming industry, but I think legally prohibiting the consumer from experiencing the media they purchased on future devices encroaches on their consumer rights and results in history being forgotten.

That said, I've never been a fan of Yuzu and Ryujinx releasing as early as they did. Approximately no new game sales have been lost due to RPCS3: by the time it became a useable enough emulator, no new PS3 games were being sold and a huge number of PS3 consoles had already stopped working. The same is true Xenia and the Xbox 360, PCSX2 and the PS2, and many other emulators. That's clearly not the case for Yuzu and Ryujinx though.

Still, while my feelings on Yuzu are somewhat negative due to when they released it, I do hope they ultimately win this lawsuit — if Yuzu isn't legal, it's very well possible that no home console emulator after the PS2 and GameCube era is legal, as they all arguably bypass DRM. Clearly, the existence of Yuzu has not harmed Nintendo all that much — they're currently the richest (though obviously not most valuable) company in Japan, with $11.44 billion in cash. The Switch has sold 139 million units and Tears of the Kingdom has sold over 20 million units. Yuzu clearly does not constitute a legitimate threat to the continuance of Nintendo making games, but Yuzu being shut down would pose a legitimate threat to the preservation of any video game released on consoles after around 2006.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve seen this sentiment echoed by many. Seems like it’d be more productive to reduce attrition of this sort by releasing a Switch with less-anemic hardware. There’s clearly a market for a “Switch Pro” or similar that can run TotK, etc at 60FPS without frame drops.

> Seems like it’d be more productive to reduce attrition of this sort by releasing a Switch with less-anemic hardware. That is difficult for Nintendo, the GPU architecture used on the switch is long dead, so Nintendo has no easy way of releasing a better switch. Because of that they will probably wait as much as possible and then release a completely new console with only limited backwards compatibility.

Or they can release a Handheld PC with Yuzu running on it. And it wouldn't be the last time.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#529
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No issue that you described comes from Nintendo. And you could have downloaded ~100 free games from the eShop. https://www.dekudeals.com/games?filter%5Bprice_range%5D%5Bmi...

That list is misleading you. Just looking at the first page I can instantly spot: Assassin's Creed - not free, must own the full price game collection. Animal Crossing: New Horizons Island Transfer Tool - not a game. BLAZBLUE CROSS TAG BATTLE SPECIAL TRIAL - a demo. Capcom Arcade - free to download but you need to buy the games within. Control - time limited demo of a fullprice single-player game. requires internet a…

I agree, it's not the best example. But I still think that my original point is valid: the Switch is rich with games and what OP was missing is just information, literal seconds of googling.

Here are 16 games that are free to play on Switch: https://www.ign.com/articles/best-free-nintendo-switch-games

Here are 500+ games that have playable demos: https://www.dekudeals.com/games?filter[demo]=available&sort=...

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagreed. I'm guessing that 99.99% of Switch emulator users do not own the cartridges. They're stealing, which is not only morally wrong, but legally wrong. Nintendo has the right to protect their IP and they have the right to make money. Furthermore, I disagree in general that it's morally and legally correct to emulate something you purchased.

Regardless of the moral question, digital piracy is not really "stealing"

Indeed it isn't: digital goods are non-rival, and as such fundamentally un-steal-able. Property as we usually understand it simply doesn't apply to them. There's still copyright infringement, but "unlawful breach of a state-granted monopoly" doesn't sound nearly as bad as stealing.

You wouldn't steal a car, would you?

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