Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#821

Post by adastra22 » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:35 AM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #577

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because just being able to do it isn't the point. The real question is whether or not it's a good use of the cash they have available. OP is saying that it doesn't make good business sense for Apple to do this, not that it's impossible for them to pull it off.

Right. If Apple spent a total of $10B on this, did they get the best ROI they could have? If they went through and released a car, would it be profitable enough for all those costs? Or would spending all that money on insourcing some manufacturing or getting more manufacturing out of China pay off more? Tim Cook is a finance guy, not a “what the hell we’ve got money to burn” leader.

> If they went through and released a car, would it be profitable enough for all those costs?

Why would that matter? Those are sunk costs.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#822

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:36 AM UTC

keanebean86 wrote: post #722

beardicus wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Apple dodged a very uncool bullet here. Now make an e-bike, Tim Apple.

What if, hear me out, the wheels were on the sides and not front and back. It uses gyroscopes to keep itself balanced. Instead of twisting the handle or pushing a button like a savage you lean in the direction you want to go! This is a totally new idea and not a product that was released over 20 years ago and since discontinued.

When you make an argument like that, the suggested changes need to be improvements.

A 12 mile per hour limit is really bad for a transportation device.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#823

Post by wnc3141 » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:40 AM UTC

adastra22 wrote: post #816

dagmx wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people want (as you describe) the “least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done” But what you then go on to describe is the antithesis of other people’s definitions. People want an experience that works out of the box. That they don’t have to think about package managers or maintenance. That’s low complexity for the vast majority of people. That’s why people are going for Apple and…

> People want an experience that works out of the box. That they don’t have to think about package managers or maintenance. That’s low complexity for the vast majority of people. > That’s why people are going for Apple and Tesla. I think you misspelled Toyota...

Agreed. that I think why some here prefer the more stripped down but more actively operated products is that, in contemporary versions of Apple (or similar) products is that the surface level simplicity of those products comes in exchange with a far more complex business model of DRM, product ecosystems, subscriptions, IOT nonsense etc.
Ironically Apple's appeal used to be the buy it and forget it product, where Toyota today remains one of the last champions of the buy it and forget it practice.

by similar, I mean firms that take a page of Apple's book with sleek, consumer friendly design and decidedly consumer unfriendly business (Peloton etc).

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#824

Post by dagmx » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:41 AM UTC

diffeomorphism wrote: post #818

dagmx wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people want (as you describe) the “least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done” But what you then go on to describe is the antithesis of other people’s definitions. People want an experience that works out of the box. That they don’t have to think about package managers or maintenance. That’s low complexity for the vast majority of people. That’s why people are going for Apple and…

People want something that works out of the box and keeps working without additional maintenance or annoying you all the time. The post you are replying to has a stronger focus on the second part but still wants the same thing. Same reasoning for getting debian instead of windows. The preinstalled option seems easier at first sight (someone else prepared the box for you), but then windows has McAfee trials, hey sign…

I understand what the person I was replying to wants. I was replying to their point that they don’t understand that other people don’t want the same, when they do but they just value other forms of simplicity.

And how does being on Debian meaningfully change your scenario? You’ve just shifted the issue elsewhere to something that you are subjectively more familiar with and subjectively more willing to debug.

Let’s be real. Most people aren’t going to do that. The year of Linux on the desktop would have come by now (and let’s not trot out the steamdeck which hides that away)

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#825

Post by ryzvonusef » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:41 AM UTC

Tesla makes the exact same car that Apple would have made (simple sleek style, proprietary port, proprietary UI etc), so we already have the Apple car.

Apple has the cash, just buy Tesla, fire Elon and make it so only the iPhone can be the phone key for the car; and voila, the Tesla Model 3 Performance becomes the Apple iCar 3 Pro Max.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#826

Post by kderbyma » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:45 AM UTC

ryzvonusef wrote: post #825

Tesla makes the exact same car that Apple would have made (simple sleek style, proprietary port, proprietary UI etc), so we already have the Apple car. Apple has the cash, just buy Tesla, fire Elon and make it so only the iPhone can be the phone key for the car; and voila, the Tesla Model 3 Performance becomes the Apple iCar 3 Pro Max.

you would need to buy the iPad separately and could use the air Dash if you are not willing to fork over the cash, and then you unlock it with your face and wave frantically to get the operation.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#827

Post by steelframe » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:48 AM UTC

8ig8 wrote: post #806

steelframe wrote: post #782

After having gone through decades of adopting the "latest and greatest" tech, I've gotten to the point where what I really want is the least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done. For a computer, I want something with SeaBIOS, a stripped-down kernel, and a handful of packages from the Debian Stable repository. I want it hackable and repairable -- something like a Framework. Nothing like a M…

Don’t forget about car windows with a crank.

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but shortly after I relocated in the dead of winter to a place that's further north my driver's side window wouldn't roll back up after I rolled it down. It's not fun trying to transport your family around with a window stuck open in freezing temps.

If a crank-based mechanism would have made that less likely to happen, or at least if it would be easier for me to get the window back up with simple tools, I would have been all for that at the time!

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#828

Post by myspy » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:50 AM UTC

dagmx wrote: post #810

consp wrote: post #800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s because they don’t want to carry that constant burden of thought with them With me it's the thought of how it's going to prevent me from doing what I want because "it's not the Apple way" (but that applies to more than just apple). It's the main reason not to use those.

And that’s fair, and it’s important to always underscore that people have subjective preferences. But the two people I responded to prior seemed to find it odd that others have a different set of goals.

You are very right.

I want my iPhone to connect via cloud with my Mac, because I can scan documents with the iPhone and open them there. Without me doing anything to connect the devices apart from first install.

I want to experience new things like new music hence why I use Spotify to get something new washed in (but in the past it worked better).

All the gain but without the pain of fixing it. I already have to fix packages during work time and debug through software. Not in my spare time please.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#829

Post by NicoJuicy » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:53 AM UTC

steelframe wrote: post #782

After having gone through decades of adopting the "latest and greatest" tech, I've gotten to the point where what I really want is the least-complex thing I can find that does the essential job I want done. For a computer, I want something with SeaBIOS, a stripped-down kernel, and a handful of packages from the Debian Stable repository. I want it hackable and repairable -- something like a Framework. Nothing like a M…

I'm inclined to want more mechanical cars again.

All the electric tech is raising car prices and blocking the right for repair ( eg. You can fix the LED light, but need a 10 k. Branded diagnose machine to indicate you fixed it).

We calculated the prices from an official shop and came to the conclusion that they billed us 150€ for basically a walk to get a 2€ part.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#830

Post by ProfessorLayton » Wed, Feb 28, 2024, 5:53 AM UTC

saurik wrote: post #807

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All my examples are current, and the list would've been much longer if it included their obsession with thinness on their previous set of laptops and phones. Anyway, I was trying to illustrate that Apple's obsession with minimalism has resulted in a very sterile and boring design language that wouldn't necessarily translate to success in the car world. Vehicles are considered very personal expressions of taste (Which…

> Vehicles are considered very personal expressions of taste... And yet virtually every car is now a shade of grey and only people who truly care about cars can tell them apart? https://www.consumerreports.org/consumerist/a-brief-history-...

Sure, but the color and design of something are different things? Apple still sells iPads/iPhones/iPads in various colors, but there’re literally all a variation of a featureless slab. Back when Apple made translucent devices, it wasn’t just color, but their interior arrangement and texture (pin stripes behind the translucent plastic).

Car color is also somewhat pragmatic for several reasons not involving design: A lot cars sold are just low end appliances that are great at taking people from point A to B as cheaply as possible. A gray toyota corola is a perfect example of this and has great resale value. Speaking from experience, some colors hold up better over time than others (clear coat peeling), especially silver and white.