Live data from Hacker News

Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

overkill.wtf

421–430 of 709 posts

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik you need to own a modded Switch to get the necessary keys, though. That’s a big outlay, if you can even find one - they’re rare as hens teeth. Edit: Awesome - great to know!

You can find the keys online.

So it's like the 09F9 1102 thing all over again?

I think I still have most of the key memorized from back then.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nintendo could do the exact same thing if they made their platforms open like Steam does. That the switch is limited to only Switch games is entirely a choice they made because their whole existence they've been all about proprietary and locked down.

Steam isn't open, Windows OS isn't even open. Windows is "semi-open", in that Microsoft can't stop you for developing and publishing whatever they want on the platform, while still not sharing source code. Microsoft only has (de facto) control of the Microsoft Store.

Not sure why you mention Windows considering how Steam Deck comes with Arch Linux out of the box, and Yuzu runs natively on Linux too ?

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#423
post #9

This is a pretty big case to watch. Are there any cases of emulators being sued successfully? A user being able to provide keys and a rom from which they could own or be homebrew doesn't seem to violate copyright to me. edit: seems the consensus is once via legal fund attrition, but the case went to the emulator authors in the end.

I don't believe so (the Sony v. Bleem cases mainly ended up in favor of Bleem), but also I don't think anyone has tried since the DMCA. It looks like Nintendo is taking a 'trafficking in circumvention device' legal strategy as opposed to a strictly anti-emulator legal strategy.

It's funny, the game companies lost the emulator court cases. But the companies behind those emulators still went out of business.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unlike prior emulators, Yuzu risks running afoul of DMCA anti-trafficking provisions for circumvention devices and software that uses circumvention devices This is interesting, it'd be great to have a link to explain this matter more deeply.

Sure. Just look up the DeCSS controversy which got the creator of a DVD ripping software arrested and barely avoiding extradition, or the 09 F9 controversy where the MPAA attempted to censor a number from the internet. This provision in the DMCA has been most often used against developers of unauthorized DVD copying software, Blu-ray copying software, etc; and the force of the legal argument has been well proven prev…

There is some overlap with that case, but also some major differences. Psystar was distributing computers with a modified version of Mac OS X preinstalled, whereas Yuzu is not modifying or distributing any Nintendo-copyrighted materials. However, Psystar was also charged with violating DMCA section 1201(a), the section dealing with creating copyright circumvention devices, and Yuzu could potentially be found in violation of that.

However, Yuzu requires that you bring your own decryption keys obtained from your own Switch device; it cannot circumvent copy protections without that. The only circumvention code included in Yuzu is basically just standard 128-bit XTS-AES decryption code; it seems like a ruling that makes that code illegal to distribute would be a bad idea.

Psystar order granting permanent injunction: http://www.groklaw.net/pdf2/Psystar-242.pdf

DMCA 1201(a): https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

Yuzu's crypto code: https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu/tree/master/src/core/crypto

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, better than on the Switch. (now I'm awaiting legal action from Nintendo)

> better than on the Switch That simply isn’t true. Downvotes don't make the statement magically more true.

I played BotW on my friend's Switch, and loved it, but didn't really wanna buy another console.

So I went through the tribulations of setting it up on the Deck (pro tip: use EmuDeck, I didn't know about it back then).

I don't know about better, but for me it felt the same as the Switch! The only slight confusion thing was button labeling, but it's quick to get used to.

I'd also say the slightly bigger screen is nicer.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#426
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it funny that Linus of LMG endorsed this setup not because it is better, but because Yuzu doesn't hold your savegames hostage. If you don't know: you can't backup saves, they get written to NAND, not the SD card. you can however buy cloud backup, but only for games that don't opt out. Truly a problem of Nintendo's own petty making if even switch owners with a legitimate copy prefer to not run on their hardwar…

If you have a hacked console (paperclip with a 1st year console, modchip with later ones), you can back up your saves using a homebrew app (checkpoint) if you remember to do it regularly. You can also copy the saves off the console (or the emulated NAND you're supposed to create when hacking it) by running a different app (TegraExplorer) right from the bootloader. I had to do this when I messed up an update and my sy…

…and if you have a hacked console, you can easily and legally(!) just dump your ROMs and emulate as well.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think MyFedora is suggesting that even if Yuzu's primary usecase is piracy, that's because it's so difficult to use Yuzu in the legit manner (due to Nintendo's DRM on the console/game you own).

I feel like it would be a lot more straightforward if people just came out and said that they think piracy should be legal. Currently we have this weird mealy-mouthed roundabout discussions where people act ever so outraged at the idea that a tool or site is primarily used for piracy when anyone who's not hopelessly naïve recognizes that that's in fact what they're used for. At best we get comments like yours that ar…

>but still dance around the fact that being anti-DRM is being pro-piracy

I think this is disingenuous, there's difference between being pro-piracy and against whatever inane terms publisher wants. There's argument that when you buy a game you can use it in any way you want, including playing it on different devices. Somewhat like first-sale doctrine.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#428
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, better than on the Switch. (now I'm awaiting legal action from Nintendo)

I found it funny that Linus of LMG endorsed this setup not because it is better, but because Yuzu doesn't hold your savegames hostage. If you don't know: you can't backup saves, they get written to NAND, not the SD card. you can however buy cloud backup, but only for games that don't opt out. Truly a problem of Nintendo's own petty making if even switch owners with a legitimate copy prefer to not run on their hardwar…

The savegame situation was part of what made me less interested in my Switch over time - I just didn't want to invest much time in any long-term games where I couldn't actually back up the savegames in any direct way. Now it gets pulled out every now and then when the kids want to play Club House Games or Mario Party.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nintendo could do the exact same thing if they made their platforms open like Steam does. That the switch is limited to only Switch games is entirely a choice they made because their whole existence they've been all about proprietary and locked down.

Steam isn't open, Windows OS isn't even open. Windows is "semi-open", in that Microsoft can't stop you for developing and publishing whatever they want on the platform, while still not sharing source code. Microsoft only has (de facto) control of the Microsoft Store.

you seem to be conflating "open" and "open source"

nintendo doesnt have to make the switch open source to make it open, they just have to allow people to make whatever the hell they want for it, but their business model depends on it being locked down (closed)

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#430
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yuzu has amazing compatibility. I'm guessing it's getting too good for Nintendo. Their concerns with TotK are not without merit. I played it on Yuzu (on PC) because it was a much better experience than on the switch. Within a few days of the game being out, there were resolution and fps patches which made the game run much better. That said, I'm not sure how Yuzu can be blamed for TotK piracy. Guessing Nintendo is th…

Actually, it's even crazier than that. The game got leaked and patches were created before the game got officially released.

What exactly do you mean by "patches were created before the game got officially released" ? It was my impression that some patches had been going around, but that they certainly weren't created by or endorsed by the Yuzu project in any official capacity - I don't see how random people creating patches for open source projects should give rise to any legal liability to the original project.
Post reply on HN