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Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

overkill.wtf

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Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#41

Post by theultdev »

johnny99k wrote: post #15
theultdev wrote: post #5

This is a pretty big case to watch. Are there any cases of emulators being sued successfully? A user being able to provide keys and a rom from which they could own or be homebrew doesn't seem to violate copyright to me. edit: seems the consensus is once via legal fund attrition, but the case went to the emulator authors in the end.

This won't matter. The goal will be to run them out of money. It's an open source project and they most likely don't have the capital to fund any sort of lengthy lawsuit.

It matters for future precedence.

It can be used to win cases against other emulators and even shut them down with limited legal action.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#43

Post by yamazakiwi »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17
Springtime wrote: post #14

> The legal document claims that over a million copies of last year's The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom were downloaded prior to the game's official retail release. As a result, the company is now seeking damages and is demanding that the Yuzu emulator is shut down. Quite the leap from existing as an emulator to inexplicably being held liable for some independent leak.

Not necessarily. It's fairly easy to prove that if the emulator did not exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential; and considering how easy it is to show the percentage of pirating users versus legitimate users (probably 95%+), it's not a good look. There's also the issue that, unlike prior emulators, Yuzu risks running afoul of DMCA anti-trafficking provisions for circumvention devices and software that uses c…

There are other emulators besides Yuzu and they would still exist if Yuzu didn't.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#44

Post by fzeroracer »

monocasa wrote: post #19
fzeroracer wrote: post #6

Looking over the legal document, realistically, their arguments are so damaging from a software perspective that they should lose. IANAL, but from skimming the legal document: The two major notions are that Yuzu violates Nintendo's copyright [1] by allowing people to play unauthorized copies [2]. In order to do so it allows for bypassing Nintendo's encryption (by taking in the keys, it does not embed the keys in the…

I'm not sure they're necessarily claiming the keys are copywritten (which honestly would be a terrible strategy), but instead that yuzu's ability to injest keys and encrypted copywritten works (decrypting them on the fly as needed like a switch would) constitutes a circumvention device banned by 17 US § 1201. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

You might be right, I was connecting this with the Dolphin case which was making the argument that the keys are copyrightable. Essentially this is an extension of that, which is arguing that any circumvention is a violation of 17 US § 1201.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#45

Post by johnnyanmac »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #7
robbiet480 wrote: post #3

I knew that Patreon would bite them some day. Any time money comes into a "offensive" open source project, whoever feels they are getting hurt can make a claim a lot easier. Somewhat surprised they haven't yet sued Ryujinx (the other Switch emulator project) for also having a Patreon.

I am not part of that scene, but I am sympathetic to emulation. Is there a notable difference between Yuzu and other switch emulators? I wonder if there are other reasons than Patreon ( money changing hands ) or there were other considerations?

Not particularly. But it's the biggest fish so it's the biggest target.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#47

Post by boolemancer »

fzeroracer wrote: post #6

Looking over the legal document, realistically, their arguments are so damaging from a software perspective that they should lose. IANAL, but from skimming the legal document: The two major notions are that Yuzu violates Nintendo's copyright [1] by allowing people to play unauthorized copies [2]. In order to do so it allows for bypassing Nintendo's encryption (by taking in the keys, it does not embed the keys in the…

> [4] "On information and belief, Yuzu users have (1) dumped Nintendo games they have lawfully purchased and copied the game ROMs into Yuzu; and (2) obtained Nintendo games online from pirate websites and copied those game ROMs into Yuzu. Each such reproduction constitutes a violation of 17 U.S.C. § 501(a) for which Plaintiff is entitled to damages under 17 U.S.C. § 504 and injunctive relief under § 502"

How on earth can they claim that the developers of Yuzu are responsible for copying done by their users?

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#48

Post by johnny99k »

theultdev wrote: post #41
johnny99k wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This won't matter. The goal will be to run them out of money. It's an open source project and they most likely don't have the capital to fund any sort of lengthy lawsuit.

It matters for future precedence. It can be used to win cases against other emulators and even shut them down with limited legal action.

I suppose they could use Bleem VS sony

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#49

Post by gjsman-1000 »

summerlight wrote: post #40
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. It's fairly easy to prove that if the emulator did not exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential; and considering how easy it is to show the percentage of pirating users versus legitimate users (probably 95%+), it's not a good look. There's also the issue that, unlike prior emulators, Yuzu risks running afoul of DMCA anti-trafficking provisions for circumvention devices and software that uses c…

> unlike prior emulators, Yuzu risks running afoul of DMCA anti-trafficking provisions for circumvention devices and software that uses circumvention devices This is interesting, it'd be great to have a link to explain this matter more deeply.

Sure. Just look up the DeCSS controversy which got the creator of a DVD ripping software arrested and barely avoiding extradition, or the 09 F9 controversy where the MPAA attempted to censor a number from the internet.

This provision in the DMCA has been most often used against developers of unauthorized DVD copying software, Blu-ray copying software, etc; and the force of the legal argument has been well proven previously. It nearly killed RealPlayer when they made unauthorized software for DVD playback.

You can also see this law invoked in Apple v Psystar; when Apple sued Psystar for circumventing protections in macOS to allow running macOS on non-Apple hardware. That lawsuit was dragged all the way to the final appeal to SCOTUS - and Psystar was shredded the whole way. Expect Apple v Psystar to come up in a Nintendo vs Yuzu lawsuit; because running macOS on unapproved hardware sounds awfully similar to running games on unapproved hardware.

If Nintendo were to succeed invoking it here - emulation would be legal. Decrypting games would be illegal. Consoles before, say, the Wii (IIRC) would be free to emulate due to not being encrypted - but newer games, being encrypted, would be off-limits just like DVDs.

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