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Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

overkill.wtf

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Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#151

Post by theultdev »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #142
theultdev wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why would the litigants contribute in the first place? If nothing compels them to, they won't, so effectively the status quo.

What I'm hearing is that it solves the problem of Nintendo being to outspend the defendant. If Nintendo brings a lawsuit and spends zero dollars on court cost, it should be rather easy for the defense to also contribute zero and the lawsuit is avoided. Problem solved.

And if Nintendo spends $10 million dollars?

And Yuzu spends $25,000 and maybe wins the first case but runs out of money during the appeal and defaults judgment.

Nintendo gets the pot because they won right?

As I pointed out to another user, this reverses the damage if they win, but does not solve the problem of preventing them from being able to win.

Now if you make it where if you want to spend $5 on lawyer fees, you have to loan $5 to the other side and if the other side wins they don't have to pay it back, that may work.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#152

Post by ambigious7777 »

codedokode wrote: post #95

> As a result, Nintendo ... is demanding that the Yuzu emulator is shut down. When corporations like Uber violate multiple laws, do they get shut down? When Amazon treats its employees poorly, does it get shut down? When Google forbids manufacturers to pre-install competitor apps, does it get shut down? Well, it seems that as long as copyright is not infringed, everything is ok. Also it seems to me that Nintendo migh…

Man, the US copyright system is broken :^(

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#153

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #127
Brainspackle wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me 15 minutes from downloading Yuzu to playing Mario Kart on my PC. You're doing something wrong

You forgot to mention whether you pirated the game or were playing it legally

My guess is that the number of people using Yuzu to play switch games they own is approximately 0

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#154

Post by andy_ppp »

jsheard wrote: post #104
Lammy wrote: post #94

Speculating here but it feels like part of Nintendo's beef is the popularity of PC form factors that look like a Nintendo Switch. Most notably the Steam Deck but there are loads of them. In 2022 Nintendo starting taking down Youtube videos showing Steam Decks running Switch games: https://www.resetera.com/threads/nintendo-started-blocking-v... And last year went after Dolphin (GCN/Wii emulator) as soon as they announ…

Amusingly Valve themselves released an official trailer for the Steam Deck which showed Yuzu installed on the homescreen. It was quickly taken down and re-posted without any references to Yuzu, probably after a panicked email from legal. https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-edits-steam-deck-trailer-to-re...

I can play Switch games on Steam Deck!?

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#155

Post by monocasa »

boolemancer wrote: post #47
fzeroracer wrote: post #6

Looking over the legal document, realistically, their arguments are so damaging from a software perspective that they should lose. IANAL, but from skimming the legal document: The two major notions are that Yuzu violates Nintendo's copyright [1] by allowing people to play unauthorized copies [2]. In order to do so it allows for bypassing Nintendo's encryption (by taking in the keys, it does not embed the keys in the…

> [4] "On information and belief, Yuzu users have (1) dumped Nintendo games they have lawfully purchased and copied the game ROMs into Yuzu; and (2) obtained Nintendo games online from pirate websites and copied those game ROMs into Yuzu. Each such reproduction constitutes a violation of 17 U.S.C. § 501(a) for which Plaintiff is entitled to damages under 17 U.S.C. § 504 and injunctive relief under § 502" How on earth…

Because "trafficking in a circumvention device" has it's own special carveout in the DMCA.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#156

Post by [deleted] »

tetrisgm wrote: post #96

I would love to see OSS communities like Internet Archive or founders who are pro open source support them. Emulators are legal. Defending your hobby project in court is infeasible without patrons. Nintendo has no leg to stand on legally speaking, and there's a precedent waiting to happen. As for the emulator itself, I don't see any argument that the Yuzu team used "illegal means" (internal SDKs, whatever their equiv…

[deleted]

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#157

Post by m-p-3 »

jsheard wrote: post #113
tetrisgm wrote: post #96

I would love to see OSS communities like Internet Archive or founders who are pro open source support them. Emulators are legal. Defending your hobby project in court is infeasible without patrons. Nintendo has no leg to stand on legally speaking, and there's a precedent waiting to happen. As for the emulator itself, I don't see any argument that the Yuzu team used "illegal means" (internal SDKs, whatever their equiv…

> Nintendo has no leg to stand on legally speaking, and there's a precedent waiting to happen. IANAL, but my understanding is that while emulation is unambiguously legal in the US after Bleem vs. Sony, an emulator which decrypts games is maybe not legal under the DMCA circumvention rules, and those have never really been tested in the context of an emulator. The Bleem case happened shortly after the DMCA was enacted,…

AFAIK, the decryption keys to use the ROMs are not distributed with the emulator, and you need to retrieve these on your own from software licenses you possess.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#158

Post by monocasa »

withinboredom wrote: post #83
monocasa wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not under 1201. They can form a copyright circumvention device without being subject to copyright themselves as long as they're used to protect an actual copywritten work (in this case the encrypted game images).

I'm going to assume the encryption is not custom. If it is "off-the-shelf" then they'll have a real hard time proving that without making every browser on the internet a "copyright circumvention device." But regardless, if they "distribute" (ie, can be freely read off the device without special tools) the keys in the clear, it isn't used to protect anything.

They use AES, but a pretty custom key derivation scheme to get to the AES keys for a specific game given the game's metadata and pre shared root keys installed on the switch at manufacturing time. Yuzu implements that key derivation scheme so that you don't have to track down per game version keys.

A browser does not have the code to decrypt a switch ROM.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#159

Post by syockit »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #110
teeray wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish our system had some kind of financial handicap when it came to access to the legal system. Weaponizing the legal system to bankrupt people that would be found Not Guilty shouldn't be possible.

I always wondered what would happen if litigants and defendants could contribute to a common legal fund which would equally fund their attorneys. It would at maximum make litigation twice as expensive which may be worth it alone.

It would be harder for big corpo to sue laypeople, but at the same time harder for laypeople to sue corpo.

Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu

#160

Post by Kirby64 »

Mad_ad wrote: post #124
TillE wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canoe (their SNES emulator) is definitely their own creation, it's very limited and can mostly only run the games they've released with it. I think it has some similar bugs to ZSNES, but that's just because they're both crappy low-accuracy emulators.

iirc they used a open-source emu on their snes/nes mini

Maybe you're thinking of the 'Playstation Classic' ? That uses PCSX directly and got some flack for it.

See: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/11/sony-using-open-sourc...

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