Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Nintendo caught using an open source emulator for the switch, without any sort of credit to the authors after suing? If so, I have no empathy for them.
Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
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Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
So can companies of leaved PC games sue nvidia or windows?
The law doesn't work on strict abstract principles. Windows has a million uses of which piracy is just one. Yuzu has two uses (playing legitimate backups and pirated backups), of which Nintendo may successfully argue, both are piracy (due to the circumvention of encryption in both cases). In which case, the only possible use in 99.9%+ of cases... is for illegal activity.
I don't think it's likely that software developers can be sued on the grounds of "some people use it for illegal activity". Can IP rights holders sue any torrent tracker on that basis? Not to mention that playing backups of your own games is explicitly legal in many places, and I'd be shocked if it isn't in the US. Lastly, one can make an argument that the purpose of Yuzu isn't playing "Switch games", but emulating the Switch hardware stack, which is legal. For example, writing your own Switch homebrew and running it on Yuzu is permitted.
Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's fairly easy to prove that if the emulator did not exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential That. Literally doesn't make any logical sense. That's like arguing that if computers didn't exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential ... or if electricity didn't exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential.
Of course, it doesn't make sense. But Nintendo has infinite money and infinite lawyers compared to these people. That means they can do whatever they want with the law.
That's when you go to the judge and ask for a summary dismissal on the grounds that it is ridiculous (they should be suing the power companies instead!). Maybe they say yes and you walk away.
Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
#94Speculating here but it feels like part of Nintendo's beef is the popularity of PC form factors that look like a Nintendo Switch. Most notably the Steam Deck but there are loads of them.
In 2022 Nintendo starting taking down Youtube videos showing Steam Decks running Switch games: https://www.resetera.com/threads/nintendo-started-blocking-v...
And last year went after Dolphin (GCN/Wii emulator) as soon as they announced plans to be listed on Steam: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36090755 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36100732
Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
#95> As a result, Nintendo ... is demanding that the Yuzu emulator is shut down.
When corporations like Uber violate multiple laws, do they get shut down? When Amazon treats its employees poorly, does it get shut down? When Google forbids manufacturers to pre-install competitor apps, does it get shut down? Well, it seems that as long as copyright is not infringed, everything is ok.
Also it seems to me that Nintendo might themselves violate antitrust laws by using their monopoly power on market of Nintendo-compatible games, and not allowing enough competition there.
Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
#96I would love to see OSS communities like Internet Archive or founders who are pro open source support them.
Emulators are legal. Defending your hobby project in court is infeasible without patrons.
Nintendo has no leg to stand on legally speaking, and there's a precedent waiting to happen.
As for the emulator itself, I don't see any argument that the Yuzu team used "illegal means" (internal SDKs, whatever their equivalent of a DLL is, etc).
A thought for the Ryujinx emulator devs, who are also making an excellent Switch emulator (sometimes more performant than Yuzu). They must be having a really stressful day.
Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not necessarily. It's fairly easy to prove that if the emulator did not exist, the leak would be fairly inconsequential; and considering how easy it is to show the percentage of pirating users versus legitimate users (probably 95%+), it's not a good look. There's also the issue that, unlike prior emulators, Yuzu risks running afoul of DMCA anti-trafficking provisions for circumvention devices and software that uses c…
I'd say most piracy is people with an actual console that they have modded to load pirated games.
Impossible to say.
Downloading yuzu and watching a YouTube video to get roms going is easier than obtaining a modded switch, that one is certain.
Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
#98I knew that Patreon would bite them some day. Any time money comes into a "offensive" open source project, whoever feels they are getting hurt can make a claim a lot easier. Somewhat surprised they haven't yet sued Ryujinx (the other Switch emulator project) for also having a Patreon.
I am not part of that scene, but I am sympathetic to emulation. Is there a notable difference between Yuzu and other switch emulators? I wonder if there are other reasons than Patreon ( money changing hands ) or there were other considerations?
Yuzu has amazing compatibility. I'm guessing it's getting too good for Nintendo. Their concerns with TotK are not without merit. I played it on Yuzu (on PC) because it was a much better experience than on the switch. Within a few days of the game being out, there were resolution and fps patches which made the game run much better. That said, I'm not sure how Yuzu can be blamed for TotK piracy. Guessing Nintendo is throwing a hail mary here and hoping they can connect the dots during discovery.
I hope this doesn't spell the end of Yuzu, because I use it to play switch games that I own on my steam deck.
Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
#99Looking over the legal document, realistically, their arguments are so damaging from a software perspective that they should lose. IANAL, but from skimming the legal document: The two major notions are that Yuzu violates Nintendo's copyright [1] by allowing people to play unauthorized copies [2]. In order to do so it allows for bypassing Nintendo's encryption (by taking in the keys, it does not embed the keys in the…
> [4] "On information and belief, Yuzu users have (1) dumped Nintendo games they have lawfully purchased and copied the game ROMs into Yuzu; and (2) obtained Nintendo games online from pirate websites and copied those game ROMs into Yuzu. Each such reproduction constitutes a violation of 17 U.S.C. § 501(a) for which Plaintiff is entitled to damages under 17 U.S.C. § 504 and injunctive relief under § 502" How on earth…
You can claim what ever the hell you want, doesn't mean it will last longer then 5 seconds in court. It's very common people make outlandish claims, these then get dismantled by a judge and jury into usually 1 that sticks. Even though you went in with 50.
That's the whole point of court.
Re: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu
#100Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Nintendo caught using an open source emulator for the switch, without any sort of credit to the authors after suing? If so, I have no empathy for them.
Canoe (their SNES emulator) is definitely their own creation, it's very limited and can mostly only run the games they've released with it.
I think it has some similar bugs to ZSNES, but that's just because they're both crappy low-accuracy emulators.