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Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

bloomberg.com

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Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#161

Post by calf »

filmgirlcw wrote: post #18

Good. This was an idea that never made any sense to me. It’s high overhead/low-margin and requires infrastructure, sales and after-sales support that just aren’t aligned with how Apple does business. It’s one thing to create a new car company (even tho those attempts usually fail), it’s another to purposefully take it on as a business line when your existing business groups prints money and have 40%+ margins. Especia…

Apple probably envisioned not a car company but a revolutionary personal transportation industry that highly integrates compute power in the form of self-driving AI. Remember, Steve Jobs famously poopooed the Segway. It doesn't surprise me that they got into it and then took their time. With advances in robotics and more powerful AI on the horizon, I can see a reasonable internal debate on whether to stay the course on R&D or not.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#162

Post by tomdell »

modeless wrote: post #91

Tesla is already the Apple of cars. Designed in California. Capacitive touchscreen instead of buttons. Vertical integration. Minimalist hardware design. Focus on software. Over the air updates. Custom SoC. When Apple did all this in phones it was unique. There was no Tesla of phones. But there is a Tesla of cars and it's tough to imagine what unique thing Apple could bring to the market.

Definitely similar in a lot of ways (going against the current, similar design language), but there are a couple of key differences to the point I wouldn't say Tesla is the Apple of cars -

Apple typically productizes mature technology and ensures that its products are designed well. Tesla is an early adopter and productizes immature technology which it overhypes and overpromises on (e.g. self-driving).

Apple's manufacturing quality control and attention to detail is also generally pretty impressive. Tesla products looks impressive on the outside but feel cheap on the inside, and there are a lot of issues with the quality of manufacturing. Apple uses nice materials and Tesla uses cheap materials.

Apple making a car always struck me as weird, though.

I would argue BMW or Mercedes are much closer to being the Apple of cars - they aren't early adopters of new technology, and their products are immaculately designed (though using a much different design language than Apple does) and are and feel expensive, unlike Tesla's cars, which look nice but feel like toys.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#163

Post by unsignedint »

I'm questioning whether cars align with their business strategy in the first place. Their approach seems to focus on creating an ecosystem where users are deeply integrated into their suite of products and services. Introducing cars, which inherently need to appeal to a broader demographic, might lead to a disconnect from this model. (Sarcastically: Were they considering a car that's unusable without an iPhone?)

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#164

Post by tbatchelli »

I don’t think the market can take what would probably be a very expensive EV, at least not at scale. EV sales in the US seem to be stalling, in part because the charging infrastructure is not fully there, and in part because of cost. The price to get mass adoption would have to be significantly lower than current offerings, and Apple is not known to undercut on price. Vision Pro is 3.5x Meta Quest Pro, for example.

In the EU the EV adoption is mostly on the heels of BYO cheaper EVs, with the exception of Norway and other northern countries. I assume Teslas are only luxury items elsewhere, and EV adoption is also based on cheaper Chinese builds.

So this is not like when the iPhone was a step function in quality, functionality and price over a commoditized mobile phone market. This is a market that is still mostly luxury, with some attempts at commoditization. A 3.5x price would be over mostly Tesla prices.

Maybe Apple realized they would take too long to achieve scale if they went to market anytime soon?

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#165

Post by klik99 »

zer00eyz wrote: post #109
filmgirlcw wrote: post #18

Good. This was an idea that never made any sense to me. It’s high overhead/low-margin and requires infrastructure, sales and after-sales support that just aren’t aligned with how Apple does business. It’s one thing to create a new car company (even tho those attempts usually fail), it’s another to purposefully take it on as a business line when your existing business groups prints money and have 40%+ margins. Especia…

>>> Good. This was an idea that never made any sense to me. It’s high overhead/low-margin and requires infrastructure, sales and after-sales support that just aren’t aligned with how Apple does business. Apple, in a twist of fate, is in the same position that AT&T was when it started Bell Labs, and in the same place as Xerox was when it started Parc. The history of Parc and Apple is well known, the early history of u…

Yeah, I absolutely believe that Apple can bring something to car industry - I remember Elon once said that Teslas hidden strength that no other car manufacturer caught on to was treating the car as technology akin to an iPhone with incremental updates and improvements pushed over the air. I've owned a Model X for a few years and I see that approach but don't think Tesla has perfected it. Apple has the potential to innovate there. Cars, even ones that look like "traditional" cars, have been computers on wheels for a long time - for example, when you press the brakes there isn't and hasn't been for a long time a direct connection to the physical brakes. I have no idea what that would look like, and as someone who thought the iPhone was a worse version of an iPod and that the iPad filled a non-existant need I don't think I can speculate. But it just feels like an area that lags behind in terms of UX, which Apple often excels at.

Edit: I'm a dumb dumb and the brakes example was bad. I don't edit my mistakes in forums so peoples replies make sense. I still think the rest of the point is valid.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#166

Post by bigstrat2003 »

jakeinspace wrote: post #122
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the market cap of Ferrari, it's not crazy why Apple was considering this. They could maybe sell 4k cars a year and increase their market cap by $100B (~3.5%). You could potentially have some shop hand build them and not have crazy cap-ex or infrastructure. I don't think Apple was planning to take on Tesla in the mass market - that would've been a pretty strange move, I agree.

I’m guessing that most of Ferrari’s market value comes from the brand compared to future revenue or IP. Apple is just not that elite of a brand, I don’t see how selling million-dollar vehicles would significantly change their brand (assuming an Apple logo hood ornament).

Aren't they? Their entire business is pretty much based on brand. Apple products aren't actually better than the competition (often they are worse, like the iPhone not letting you install apps outside the app store). But it doesn't matter because people think Apple is cool. I don't see why that wouldn't translate to cars.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#167

Post by DinaCoder99 »

MBCook wrote: post #19

I was always rather puzzled by the car. I can’t see them ever competing even with the small makers like Jaguar or Polestar or Lamborghini. They’re certainly not going to take on Ford or Mazda or Honda. The idea of making the infotainment guts is interesting but I can’t see any carmaker giving up that much control. If they don’t like CarPlay they’d never like full Apple infotainment. Sure Apple could do ADAS stuff, bu…

> I can’t see them ever competing even with the small makers like Jaguar or Polestar or Lamborghini.

None of these are practical luxury car brands. Certainly their competitors would be, say, BMW or Porsche?

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#168

Post by ProfessorLayton »

To be honest, I'm not sure what Apple could've brought to the table in regards to making an electric car. Apple's hardware design philosophies[1] don't really align with what consumers want in a car. Apple being less minimalistic than a Tesla — which is already at an extreme — is a hard sell.

[1] Examples of what I mean:

- Cars use faux materials all the time for cost and weight purposes, or even just looks (i.e. fake chrome bits, spoilers and vents that don't do anything etc.). Apple these days does not, if it looks like metal, it almost always is, same for glass, and vents are as hidden as possible.

- Creature comforts: Cars are a place people spend a lot of time in, and are usually as comfortable as possible for it.

Apple examples where ergonomics took a back seat for looks: All their mice, Airpods Max (Heavy, can't fold or turn off without a case), Vision (Heavy), Apple TV (ZERO buttons, need to unplug to reset from a crash). I'm not saying it's impossible for them to make a comfortable car, but I am saying they've prioritized looks over comfort several times.

- Apple design in general has lost a lot of it's soul. They used to be more fun and whimsy, just look at iMac designs of the past. The Cyber truck, love it or hate it, is not boring. Everything apple sells is a glass and metal slab, or as close as possible to it.

By the way, I like a lot of Apple's hardware design decisions, like premium materials etc. I just don't think it's in their DNA to launch a car that isn't a touch-screen-hell appliance with rounded corners.

Re: Apple to wind down electric car effort after decadelong odyssey

#169

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

eli wrote: post #29
MBCook wrote: post #19

I was always rather puzzled by the car. I can’t see them ever competing even with the small makers like Jaguar or Polestar or Lamborghini. They’re certainly not going to take on Ford or Mazda or Honda. The idea of making the infotainment guts is interesting but I can’t see any carmaker giving up that much control. If they don’t like CarPlay they’d never like full Apple infotainment. Sure Apple could do ADAS stuff, bu…

To be fair, that was what a lot of people thought about Apple making a cell phone. That they'd never compete with Nokia or Motorola and that US carriers would never give them enough control.

Not really the point. Apple succeeded because they applied their strengths, product and user interface design, to what is essentially a small computer.

Apple have always developed core products that are essentially a computer.

Even though cars increasingly look like laptops on wheels, the actual computer bit is relatively minor and the user interface is mostly the wheel and pedals, not so much the screen.

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