Punk isn’t dead, we just retired!
Punk is dead and so are we
31–40 of 213 posts
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#32One could argue though that being conservative (in a literal sense), is the reactionary "punk" to the ideas of modernism and innovation of previous eras.
An interesting phenemenon is the emergence of the extremely popular game based works across different mediums; LitRPGs for Western Fantasy, Isekai/Narou for Japanese culture, and the "Hunter" manwha for Korea. These works tend to have a infamous reputation for being overly similar to each other, and eschewing much in originality and worldbuilding in favour of pure action and power fantasies. In my discussions with those who consumed it, unique settings, character development, etc were all burdens, and instead by using a easily familiar and simple system of a game-rpg they could instead push to the "meat" of action scenes. The same can be also said about the comparison between the leanness of new "shounen" like Jujutsu Kaisen compared to meandering filler of the Big Three (Naruto, Bleach, One Piece).
As someone who grew up with the previous era, that kind of thinking is almost antithetical to the reasons why I was drawn into fiction; The whole point of an RPG was to realise a fantasy world, the mechanics were just abstractions to make up technical limitations. Beyond that in other mediums, the idea was to get even crazier and fleshed out settings, to have more realistic characters, all to build that vision of a fantasy world that yet felt sincere. Pushing boundaries was the name of the game. And so it's that funnily enough, many older works like The Five Star Stories could almost be construed as innovative if you were to compare them to modern works today.
This is all just about a specific niche culture, so other cultures may be different. But looking at decline in originals and the rise of remakes and endless sequels paints a similar risk-averse outlook for the wider zeitgeist. Well I guess it's a pendulum of reacting ideas; Modernism is the establishment, so Conservative is the anti-establishment. But the current era itself is already running out of steam, so the pendulum may just turn back.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#33I don’t understand how you can devote so many words to the staying power of “capitalism” and not once give any concrete sense of what the economics of an alternative would look like and how you would make it work. The degree to which people microanalyze culture seems bonkers to me. If you don’t like our current economic system, then it’s kind of on you to come up with a viable alternative using empirical evidence. Ni…
Pretty much every article lamenting the seeming inevitability of capitalism and the lack of coherent alternatives is going to misdiagnose the problem and have no concrete solutions, because the fundamental problem is that the problems people care about are not simply consequences of capitalism and cannot be eliminated just by getting rid of it.
For example, no amount of monkeying with the economic system will make it possible to fight global warming simply by cutting off fossil fuel supplies and destroying fossil fuel company profits without huge impacts on the demand side that affect ordinary people - that'd require consuming fuel that was never produced. This effect on ordinary voters would make it horrendously unattractive to politicans even if they didn't have to care what corporations thought at all. Similarly, here in the UK there's huge public anger over sewage in our rivers and seas but no amount of nationalisation can change the fact that rebuilding the sewage system not to do that would take huge amounts of resources from other things that people care about and cause lots of unpopular disruption from the work required.
Because the things that people care about and want fixed aren't actually caused by capitalism, the most politically effective anti-capitalist ideas are populist lies that promise false solutions to those problems which cannot actually work. This also means that any leader or would-be leader with any sense isn't willing to go along with those ideas because they're creating a whip for their own back when they fail to live up to that. Any concrete, achievable anti-capitalism also has to fall so short of the populist version to be entirely unattractive.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#34[flagged]
No, it's mainstream pop culture. As the author alludes it's trendy even for straight people to emulate gay culture.
I'm sorry, what? It seems to me the reverse is true, manosphere is mainstream and it rejects anything woke, while even mentioning anything lgbt related on any mainstream platform is enough to get a bunch of people to try to remove it via death threats and false reports.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#35I'm not familiar with the age of the author but the article very much makes me think they are old enough to have seen the counterculture of their youth become mainstream and die while the next wave of counterculture was "inauthentic and corporate" followed by being too out of touch with the youth to notice the counterculture coming up behind it (and mistaking the mainstream for the counterculture, ie, taylor swift, kanye west and beyonce) but not quite old enough to realize that the "last true counterculture" of their youth was actually just as real and authentic as what followed.
I had the same feelings when I was younger but, having seen the pattern a couple more times than once, I think most people come to the same realization that this is just the way it is and why parents are usually nonchalant and a bit dismissive of their children's "rebellious counterculture".
I think they author misattributes the mainstream takeover of counterculture to "capitalism finally got them" when, it seem obvious to me, that what's really happened is that the counterculture just got older and are now the ones shaping the mainstream.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#36[flagged]
No, it's mainstream pop culture. As the author alludes it's trendy even for straight people to emulate gay culture.
> No, it's mainstream pop culture.
This is highly dependent on context. In much of the world, it's dangerous to be openly sympathetic to LGBT causes, let alone openly LGBT. Even in much of the US, being openly gay is dangerous, and being openly trans is even more dangerous. A non-binary 16-year-old was murdered in Oklahoma this month; meanwhile, nobody's out here killing Swifties (at least, not yet).
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#37I think the author misattributed who the modern era punks would be. At least based on the described framework of what punk counter-culture was about and what it was countering. Given how much of the mainstream is organized around overwrought advertising, influencering, guruing, and being terminally online... it seems like the modern punks would be the counter-culture that prioritizes being offline, being private, and…
The punks are alive and well tagging freeway overpass signs, dumpster diving, planting flowers in public parks, making their own clothes, and living in communal housing where it’s always someone else’s turn to do the dishes.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Alternative would be libertarian socialism, with economy of some mixture of cooperative economics, decentralized planning, gift economy and library economy.
Do you have any good links that explain more? In my mind the ideas of socialism and libertarianism are polar opposites.
It's probably best to watch some YT videos by Anark https://www.youtube.com/@Anark or Andrewism https://www.youtube.com/@Andrewism on Youtube. Anark is very pedantic which I like, while Andrewism is more chill. Take your time especially with Anark's videos, cause they are veeeeery pedantic and can overwhelm with their information content.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#39Oh a few years ago, after the fall of the Wall, many people said we had reached the "end of history": capitalism has won and occident will rule the world and bring peace to the world. (I think Fukuyama, cited in the article, said something like that)
Interestingly, Putin is still there, Islamism, China too... One could always argue they're a form of capitalism but I'm sure history is full of "our system is the only one" claim.
So no, no and no.
Re: Punk is dead and so are we
#40I think the author misattributed who the modern era punks would be. At least based on the described framework of what punk counter-culture was about and what it was countering. Given how much of the mainstream is organized around overwrought advertising, influencering, guruing, and being terminally online... it seems like the modern punks would be the counter-culture that prioritizes being offline, being private, and…
If an old punk ethic was 'Do It Yourself' (DIY), maybe the modern punk equivalent would be 'Do It Offline' (DIO.)
I don’t know to what degree it’s “a thing” but I know a lot of 30-something punks from my old scene that are now into a kind of homesteading vibe. Moved out to the surrounding countryside as much for economic as ideological reasons. Some are all the way into off-the-grid, home schooling, etc.
Nothing says “Fuck the System!” like solar panels and a wood burning stove I guess?