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Microsoft is driving users away

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Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#341

Post by culopatin »

noobermin wrote: post #294

Linux is also removing tools people use. Just the other day I found out hcitool and rfcomm were removed from bluez, yet another thing I now have to handwrite myself even when I just want to tinker. Sure, you can still do things like I can write to a socket using python over using rfcomm, but isn't it the same as this article? It's gets in the way of gnome and friends wanting to "cater the experience" plus it's legacy…

You say “Linux” as if it was a single company. What prevents you from either re adding it yourself or being part of the group working on that and changing what you don’t like?

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#342

Post by FeloniousHam »

Zardoz84 wrote: post #299
alisonatwork wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, Windows 8 was a superior interface for the Surface and similar devices to either 10 or 11. While I wouldn't want to go back to 8 due to subsequent quality of life improvements for developers like WSL and winget, I still miss the UI every day. It looked clean and simple and worked great with a touchscreen and keyboard alike. Trying to navigate a Surface on Windows 11 with the utterly useless widgets…

The fact is that Windows 8.1 was far better that the shit hole that Windows 10/11 has become. Windows 7 was the last great Windows. Windows 8.1 was the last decent/good Windows.

I use Windows 11 for work, I really like the UI. Consistent, simple, powerful. Never crashes on me.

I use (and love) a Mac at home, and spent years in Ubuntu/Gnome.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#343

Post by bonton89 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #245

"I've been a lifelong Windows user since the 90s and even MS-DOS back in the 80s, but things are changing. I've been using other operating systems more and more." OK, that's one user. But clearly he is still using Windows. Microsoft has not "lost" him. He is just complaining. He even provides a solution re: printing for other Windows users that implies his readers are still using it, too. "Microsoft is in a panic fro…

I was expecting more discussion on this.

The closest thing to info on this I've seen is statcounter's Desktop OS share. According to that Windows has actually lost 15-20% marketshare in the last 10 years. It doesn't look like linux is stealing it though, OSX and "unknown" seem to be the biggest hitters. For all I know unknown is still Windows!

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#344

Post by bee_rider »

shiroiushi wrote: post #290
bee_rider wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the Linux ecosystem is not really interested in selling Linux, they are interested in solving their problems using Linux and then sharing. This leaves space open for groups like Valve or Google to create a nice UI on top of Linux and sell that. How can they compete with free? It turns out free is not actually interested in competing with them… I still give it, like, less than 50% chance of occurring, but it w…

>they are interested in solving their problems using Linux and then sharing. This leaves space open for groups like Valve or Google to create a nice UI on top of Linux and sell that. In theory. In practice, this doesn't happen. Overall, I'd say desktop UIs are actually Linux's greatest failing. It's dominated by two different groups (Gnome vs. KDE) with extremely different design philosophies, and both having major (…

i3 and Sway work great. UI isn't a failing in general. Just a particular type of discoverable UI that is needed to sell to non-technical users…

Chromebooks sell OK, right?

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#345

Post by butlike »

pierat wrote: post #225
whiplash451 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you could turn off auto-update I would not mess with that bit these days

There is a difference between: 1. Updates have been applied (in the middle of your crucial thing). Reboot in 60 seconds. Fuck you if you think you can cancel haha. 2. Updates for the following packages are available. Apply: Now or later. Windows is #1. Linux is #2. Linux does it right. Sometimes, you're in the middle of something, and delaying makes sense. But shutting down on a 3d print job, or in the middle of a ga…

Linux also doesn't have the use case of grandma/grandpa. Gunshy small brick and mortar owners, kiosks, banks, employee who doesn't have privileges (both on the system and in writing) to update...the list goes on.

Forcefully rolling out the update is the only way it may ever get updated, in a lot of cases.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#346

Post by butlike »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #248
pierat wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between: 1. Updates have been applied (in the middle of your crucial thing). Reboot in 60 seconds. Fuck you if you think you can cancel haha. 2. Updates for the following packages are available. Apply: Now or later. Windows is #1. Linux is #2. Linux does it right. Sometimes, you're in the middle of something, and delaying makes sense. But shutting down on a 3d print job, or in the middle of a ga…

To point out the obvious: run auto-update before doing the "crucial thing" and that won't occur. Or pay for the non-consumer oriented editions of Windows that allow full administrative control; they exist. Anybody who could not figure that out is probably not capable of managing Linux properly either.

IDK, it's a can of worms. COMs, Services, HKEYs, Group Policies (local and forest), AD. I wouldn't fault someone for eschewing all that.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#347

Post by butlike »

Yaggo wrote: post #322
firecall wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS Edge is the most egregious offender, for me. There’s a nice UI under all of the offensive promos and news they force onto you. My kid just got a new school laptop, preloaded by the school. He opens up Edge and Boom! It’s spamming him with fake Ads and horror news stories about war. Thanks for that MS. It’s like they really do not understand what made Google Search so popular back in the say. FWIW, I do think macOS…

I bought my first Windows pc recently (a gaming rig). I was shocked to find that even Minesweeper had ads! “Microsoft has no taste” seems to still hold.

"You've run out of flags! Click here to go to the Minesweeper Store, or wait an additional 2:29 minutes"

I can't even believe I'm saying this: but all joking aside, I MIGHT be inclined to buy a cosmetic skin for smiley if they offered it.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#348

Post by [deleted] »

tux1968 wrote: post #216
zeroCalories wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is good enough, but in terms of stability and performance for user applications, it sucks compared to Windows and MacOS. There really isn't a company or organization that focuses on that, besides maybe Valve. We need more attention on it, for our own sanity, but most of the money is in enterprise servers.

> it sucks compared to Windows and MacOS There are tradeoffs. Linux's advantage is that it's not an adware platform, or a walled garden. For my money, I don't care about extra performance or stability, it all works well enough for me. Of course, that doesn't help if your particular application doesn't work on Linux, you're out of luck. I just don't think it's a worthwhile goal, to try to attract those people to Linux…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#349

Post by butlike »

beretguy wrote: post #276
zeroCalories wrote: post #34

It's amazing to me that Microsoft messed up Windows. All they had to do was not not change things, but they continued to force junk on me that I don't need, take power away from me, and spy on me. Honestly MacOS isn't much better. Linux is still crap software, but we've reached the point where most things can be done on Linux, so good riddance. I hope that more people switch and Linux continues to improve. There's ac…

> Linux is still crap software [citation needed]

"The package is corrupted. Please use dpkg to correct it."

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#350

Post by butlike »

piva00 wrote: post #284
zeroCalories wrote: post #34

It's amazing to me that Microsoft messed up Windows. All they had to do was not not change things, but they continued to force junk on me that I don't need, take power away from me, and spy on me. Honestly MacOS isn't much better. Linux is still crap software, but we've reached the point where most things can be done on Linux, so good riddance. I hope that more people switch and Linux continues to improve. There's ac…

> Honestly MacOS isn't much better. Any examples to why macOS isn't much better?

launchctl is a strong example.
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