Microsoft is driving users away • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#141

Post by makeitdouble » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:01 PM UTC

doawoo wrote: post #7

I really agree with this article- I used Windows as my primary OS (not counting work machines) until about 2 years ago, the mess of non coherent design and CONSTANTLY resetting my user preferences every update (like shoving new buttons [see: ads] onto my taskbar) ultimately lead me to buying the first m1 mbp as my new personal machine. Never looked back. I only boot up windows for occasional games now, and even then,…

> Never looked back

From 2 years ago, I think you're still somewhat in the honeymoon period.

The real fun begins when they rewrite system apps in a new framework, and kill the mechanism your favorite system extension was using.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#142

Post by whiplash451 » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:01 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #90

zeroCalories wrote: post #34

It's amazing to me that Microsoft messed up Windows. All they had to do was not not change things, but they continued to force junk on me that I don't need, take power away from me, and spy on me. Honestly MacOS isn't much better. Linux is still crap software, but we've reached the point where most things can be done on Linux, so good riddance. I hope that more people switch and Linux continues to improve. There's ac…

> It's amazing to me that Microsoft messed up Windows. It is. At Windows 7, they pretty much had desktops right. Everything mostly worked. They'd finally fixed the crashing problems. (How? The Static Driver Verifier validated that third-party kernel drivers would not crash the rest of the system, and a classifier applied to crash dumps routed similar crash dumps to the same maintainer.) The UI was reasonable for a de…

> you could turn off auto-update

I would not mess with that bit these days

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#143

Post by trealira » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:01 PM UTC

tonoto wrote: post #114

layer8 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no good replacement for Active Directory, by a large margin. It’s the single biggest factor that keeps Windows alive in the enterprise.

Was that really a good thing? Active Directory in enterprise environments keep the hackers happy

I didn't know what the Active Directory is until now, although I found its Wikipedia page. Is it known for being insecure?

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#144

Post by layer8 » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:01 PM UTC

rincebrain wrote: post #113

Lammy wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just a GUID. They're a good thing and very useful. Spoiler alert, your Linux systems probably use them too: [lammy@emi] blkid /dev/mapper/nvme0n1p5_crypt: UUID="RjKq3i-w2ov-ZXcp-Uc60-Ylzp-Gc56-xtjpkg" TYPE="LVM2_member" /dev/mapper/mint--vg-root: UUID="4d5373f4-d9e2-4787-98d8-24c33a1574b7" TYPE="ext4" /dev/nvme0n1p1: UUID="d6b28757-9cd9-44a5-b68a-25515537e540" TYPE="ext4" PARTUUID="bc0382eb-01" /dev/nvme0n1p5: U…

I think it's not the GUID, but the fact that referencing the GUID is the only way to get at the functionality any more. Yes, your devices and various other underpinnings have GUIDs, but very few of them _only_ surface the GUID as a referent to the thing in a place a user would have to access it. Similar to how, if you could only get at this by doing "rundll32 shellex.dll LoadOldPrinterSettings", the issue wouldn't be…

As noted in TFA comments, `control /name Microsoft.Printers` also works.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#145

Post by bhewes » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:01 PM UTC

rincebrain wrote: post #97

pdimitar wrote: post #28

Microsoft has been driving users away for no less than 10 years now and nothing much is changing IMO because Windows is what most people think of as "the computer". Non-technical users think they have no other choice, they shrug the defects off and try to get their job done. Though the article kind of piqued my interest by claiming that Microsoft "is in panic" -- any proof that they are indeed bleeding users more tha…

Really, among people under 25, a lot of them see "the phone" as the computer, and treat using desktops as a burden any time it happens.

This i find fun to watch as they sit down at a desktop and co work together through the desktop interface.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#146

Post by Solvency » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

datagrimx wrote: post #124

For full Disclosure, I once upon was a software engineer at Microsoft. I witnessed first hand the evil decisions around Windows. I left Microsoft in 2006 but I am still part of the Alumni Network. IMO Microsoft can gain users back by: * Not requiring a Microsoft Account * Ending all data/telemetry collection * Not forcing Edge on its users * Stop releasing improved UI updates every week * Make bash, zsh, ... native f…

What I don't get is... doesn't MS get more than enough data/telemetry from its cloud services and now AI usage? Do they REALLY have to shove it into the core desktop OS?

As much as I loathe my days being siphoned from me all day long while being forced to use Office, I'd at least forgive them if my daily driver OS wasn't a giant ad-infested spyware app.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#147

Post by timetopay » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

datagrimx wrote: post #124

For full Disclosure, I once upon was a software engineer at Microsoft. I witnessed first hand the evil decisions around Windows. I left Microsoft in 2006 but I am still part of the Alumni Network. IMO Microsoft can gain users back by: * Not requiring a Microsoft Account * Ending all data/telemetry collection * Not forcing Edge on its users * Stop releasing improved UI updates every week * Make bash, zsh, ... native f…

It's wild how annoying Windows UX can be when it's something that microsoft wants you to use, to help improve their services revenue.

TBH, I'm on board with some of the negatives you listed, but I feel like the entire enthusiast community has been screaming about edge, telemetry, and start menu search for years. Microsoft seems determined not to listen, it's astonishing.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#148

Post by overgard » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:02 PM UTC

nickelpro wrote: post #125

overgard wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man, with Steam on linux and most of the major game engines making porting easy (or at least moving in that direction) I have very few reasons to stick with Windows anymore. At this point it's basically Photoshop and Fusion 360, otherwise I'd abandon it completely. If they lose gamers, I think they'll have a real issue.

You're a power user unable to understand the needs of non-power users. We all go through that stage, it's natural. I once installed Linux on all my siblings' desktops because I had convinced my parents it would lead to "less viruses" (Fedora 13, I think, GNOME 2, those were the days). The nightmare of providing support for that over the rest of my high school years provided me with a powerful and important lesson. Yo…

Here's the thing though, the desktop now really is about power users or corporate users, because everyone else just uses cell phones or tablets. So ok, sure, your sales people and your secretaries probably aren't going to care about the control panel, but people that use computers outside of work are mostly going to be power users and they're starting to have options. (I can use all the software I need on macOS, and linux is rapidly getting there too)

And honestly, breaking Printers is a thing that everyone is going to care about, especially people in a workplace.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#149

Post by TheLoafOfBread » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:03 PM UTC

datagrimx wrote: post #124

For full Disclosure, I once upon was a software engineer at Microsoft. I witnessed first hand the evil decisions around Windows. I left Microsoft in 2006 but I am still part of the Alumni Network. IMO Microsoft can gain users back by: * Not requiring a Microsoft Account * Ending all data/telemetry collection * Not forcing Edge on its users * Stop releasing improved UI updates every week * Make bash, zsh, ... native f…

> Make bash, zsh, ... native for Windows

Why? There is PowerShell, able to run on Linux and MacOS. And compared to Bash it is actually readable language.

Re: Microsoft is driving users away

#150

Post by timetopay » Sun, Feb 25, 2024, 10:04 PM UTC

Solvency wrote: post #146

datagrimx wrote: post #124

For full Disclosure, I once upon was a software engineer at Microsoft. I witnessed first hand the evil decisions around Windows. I left Microsoft in 2006 but I am still part of the Alumni Network. IMO Microsoft can gain users back by: * Not requiring a Microsoft Account * Ending all data/telemetry collection * Not forcing Edge on its users * Stop releasing improved UI updates every week * Make bash, zsh, ... native f…

What I don't get is... doesn't MS get more than enough data/telemetry from its cloud services and now AI usage? Do they REALLY have to shove it into the core desktop OS? As much as I loathe my days being siphoned from me all day long while being forced to use Office, I'd at least forgive them if my daily driver OS wasn't a giant ad-infested spyware app.

Tbh telemetry is really useful for identifying bugs, feature requirements, and security issues. It's anonymized, not really that invasive, and the way they gather it is pretty responsible.

However...

It's my operating system. Can they not understand why people would be sensitive about this? It blows my mind that, at least, there isn't an on/off toggle in the Pro version. It's really disrespectful to those of us who care.