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Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

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Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#161

Post by gwervc »

Log_out_ wrote: post #130
Despegar wrote: post #98

It's time for the US to end the sanctions on North Korea. The abuse workers face is a straight line result from the fact that virtually all aspects of their economy are under total embargo. North Korea is a nuclear state, and they will never go back to not being one. North Koreans have been working in China for decades and that won't change either because China is not going to let them become a failed state.

? Containment on imperial systems was removed. Russia invaded Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine. China colonized Hong Kong, uighurs, north Korea. Iran colonized Iraq, Yemen, Syria. Your liberal experiments have successfully brought back the world of 1910. And yet you endorse them..

Number of wars started by North Korea in the last 70 years: 0.

Number of wars started by the US in the timeframe: hold my beer.

Also Hong-Kong have been Chinese for centuries, before being colonized by the UK.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#162

Post by carlmr »

gambiting wrote: post #155
throwaway290 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can something like this be allowed into The United States. Are trade sanctions actually bureaucratic yellow tape to get around with middleman shell companies? Not just US. Did you know that as soon as Russian sanctions began with the latest war escalation, German exports of chips and machinery to Kyrgyzstan rose 900%? (I'd be the first to say this sounds like a conspiracy but by now even Reuters reported on it)

Polish imports of wood from Kazakhstan have gone up 50x since the introduction of sanctions on Russia - even though Kazakhstan has close to zero forests and its domestic production of wood has always been very very very low - but suddenly they produce so much wood it almost exactly matches what used to be imported from Russia before. And everyone knows this is a rouse and this is really Russian wood imported into Kaz…

I thought the idea was that we know that sanctions are circumvented this way, but it puts a tax on all dealings.

Russia selling oil to India? It's now part of the world oil market, so decreases demand from India for other nations oil. Effectively they're still selling the same amount of oil, but now they get rupees instead of $, € or ₽.

Russia selling wood through Kazakhstan? Well it's the same wood being sold, but Kazakhstan is getting money out of this somehow. There are people to bribe on the way. There are logistics to be done. They will achieve a lower price on the wood now.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#163

Post by Log_out_ »

gwervc wrote: post #161
Log_out_ wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

? Containment on imperial systems was removed. Russia invaded Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine. China colonized Hong Kong, uighurs, north Korea. Iran colonized Iraq, Yemen, Syria. Your liberal experiments have successfully brought back the world of 1910. And yet you endorse them..

Number of wars started by North Korea in the last 70 years: 0. Number of wars started by the US in the timeframe: hold my beer. Also Hong-Kong have been Chinese for centuries, before being colonized by the UK.

NK is heavily involved in Ukraine.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#164

Post by koonsolo »

Despegar wrote: post #98

It's time for the US to end the sanctions on North Korea. The abuse workers face is a straight line result from the fact that virtually all aspects of their economy are under total embargo. North Korea is a nuclear state, and they will never go back to not being one. North Koreans have been working in China for decades and that won't change either because China is not going to let them become a failed state.

Dictatorships should be starved out so they don't pose a threat to the rest of us.

Expecting them to behave by sending them money is a failed theory.

EU here, not US. I don't want my money to fund the killings of our Ukrainian friends.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#165

Post by chiefalchemist »

jojobas wrote: post #86
chiefalchemist wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. Saying today's poor are better off than before is a distraction from the questions we should be asking: 1) Why are there so many poor? 2) Why are their ranks increasing? To say something is better than before is not the same as saying it is as good as it could be. And yet no one is trumpeting the latter.

> Why are their ranks increasing? They're not. Both absolute number and percentage in both "extreme poverty" and just "poverty" have been steadily decreasing since the 70s.

Extreme poverty vs plain vanilla poverty? That's funny.

You're falling for the ruse. Funny how the First World all but abandobed the rest of the (impoverish) world until it needs that head count to pat itself on the back and sell the ruse

Thank you for proving my point.

Regardless, the question remains: why so much poverty in so many places? *Especially* in the First World?

"Smile and be happy you pathetically poor, you're slightly less pathetic than before"

Do you not sense how insensitive and in-a-bubble that sounds?? Certainly, we can do better. Certainly, we shouldn't be bragging about that is still a massive loss to so many.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#166

Post by ReptileMan »

gambiting wrote: post #152
Throw494955 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People send to EU are not some slaves, but highly loyal party members.

Highly loyal party members are being "sent" for work in Poland?

It is quite easy to be quite loyal if your family is going to be sent to the charming camps if you think of staying in Poland. Also in communist countries being member of the party doesn't mean much. I think around 30% of NK population are party members.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#167

Post by ReptileMan »

advisedwang wrote: post #16
whatever1 wrote: post #3

I wonder why we do not use some sort of labor as penalty for misdemeanor, instead of useless incarceration. You caused $XXX of damage and you have no funds to cover it, you should work for the state until you pay back the sum.

The United States does have forced labor, although not a whole lot that isn't under a pretense of a optional program. Notably at Angola ( https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2022/11/10/angola-pri... ) But even if you want more, what should the prision do if a prisioner refuses to participate in the forced labor? How do you force them. Violence and torture is the only ultimate way. That is what you are demanding.

> Violence and torture is the only ultimate way.

Boredom will break them easier, even if it takes slightly longer.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#168

Post by krapp »

zactato wrote: post #100

Also, let’s not forget that much of the seafood coming from South East Asia has a high risk of using slave labor. Make your own decisions about what that means for you.

American capitalism runs on slave labor from South America, Asia and Africa. Our politicians rail against immigration and globalism while brown people cut their lawns and clean their homes for scam wages. The party that championed globalism and outsourcing is the same party that's now complaining about the intended result.

This is why people say there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. To simply exist within the system of American imperialism is to be complicit in crimes against humanity.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#169

Post by aamoyg »

krapp wrote: post #168
zactato wrote: post #100

Also, let’s not forget that much of the seafood coming from South East Asia has a high risk of using slave labor. Make your own decisions about what that means for you.

American capitalism runs on slave labor from South America, Asia and Africa. Our politicians rail against immigration and globalism while brown people cut their lawns and clean their homes for scam wages. The party that championed globalism and outsourcing is the same party that's now complaining about the intended result. This is why people say there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. To simply exist within…

I don't think it means that you are complicit, because that signifies intent to exploit. If you are an immigrant who is exploited by the same system who naturalized to citizen (and is still exploited in the local context) I would hope you don't want anyone else to go through that.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#170

Post by aamoyg »

carlmr wrote: post #162
gambiting wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Polish imports of wood from Kazakhstan have gone up 50x since the introduction of sanctions on Russia - even though Kazakhstan has close to zero forests and its domestic production of wood has always been very very very low - but suddenly they produce so much wood it almost exactly matches what used to be imported from Russia before. And everyone knows this is a rouse and this is really Russian wood imported into Kaz…

I thought the idea was that we know that sanctions are circumvented this way, but it puts a tax on all dealings. Russia selling oil to India? It's now part of the world oil market, so decreases demand from India for other nations oil. Effectively they're still selling the same amount of oil, but now they get rupees instead of $, € or ₽. Russia selling wood through Kazakhstan? Well it's the same wood being sold, but K…

They are getting rupees, dirhams, and ammunition for police (7.62 x 39, 9 x 19)
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