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Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

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Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#31
post #15

Is there no value in merely separating and gathering this material, even if it's all dumped in a "plastics only" landfill, as opposed to one containing other types of trash? Isn't keeping different types of waste sorted inherently useful in other ways?

I suspect you’re right. From my hometown’s local waste authority: After [we have] collected the waste from your bin, the purple dotted bag [with plastic waste] is sent on for collection and pressing before being transported to large sorting facilities in Northern Germany and other places in Europe. Here, 75% of the content in the purple dotted bag (figures from 2019) is recycled, and the remaining waste (often residual waste and food waste that has been incorrectly sorted) is utilized for energy.

And more detail: This is how household plastic is recycled: Collected plastic packaging is first finely sorted in Germany, before moving on to recyclers in the same country or elsewhere in Europe. We differentiate between the recycling of household plastic, which is the plastic you sort at home, and plastic packaging from businesses. - The plastic packaging you sort at home is collected by the municipality or an inter-municipal waste company. They press the plastic together into large bales. - Plastretur transports the plastic to a sorting facility. - At the sorting facility, incorrect sorting and contaminants are removed. This can include paper and metal, or other items that ended up in the wrong collection at your home. - Additionally, the plastic is sorted into different qualities, and non-recyclable packaging is removed. The sorting facilities classify the plastic into several plastic qualities such as PP, LDPE, HDPE, PET before it is transported to a recycling plant. - At the recycling plant, the plastic is washed. This process also removes labels and glue. - Then it is ground and melted into small beads, called pellets. Pellets are a raw material that can be used to make new products from recycled plastic.

Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#32
post #4

Recycling is an industry psyop to convince the public that plastic can be consumed ethically and sustainably. Unless we ban disposable plastics altogether, the problem will only get worse. Plastic has only been around for 100 years; imagine just how bad things will be in 500.

When we have built entire civilizations that require orders of magnitude more burning of gasoline to get through a day, plastics are the least of our worries, IMHO. If my fellow Americans were forced to lift and pour the 20 gallons of gasoline when they refill their tanks, they might start to realize the true source of the vast majority of their environmental damage. (And as far as waste, tire microplastics are a far…

Hah just imagining having to help fill the jet fuel before ascending the stairs to the plane.

Same idea as slaughtering your own animals. Problem is that there is still a lot of other invisible uses from companies. Can't force Shell execs to bring paper towels to clean up an oil spill (well, maybe we can, but you get the point).

Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#33
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we have built entire civilizations that require orders of magnitude more burning of gasoline to get through a day, plastics are the least of our worries, IMHO. If my fellow Americans were forced to lift and pour the 20 gallons of gasoline when they refill their tanks, they might start to realize the true source of the vast majority of their environmental damage. (And as far as waste, tire microplastics are a far…

Then ban oil and cars, too. I'm deadly serious.

"Deadly" is the operative word, as that would cause incalculable suffering and damage.

Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#34
post #13

One of the big problems with plastic recycling is that people read "plastic recycling is a scam" but internalize "recycling is a scam". Some types of recycling are massively successful and efficient, like the recycling of vehicle lead acid batteries or post industrial steel recycling.

Or aluminum recycling, crazy efficient compared to making new aluminum.

I am not so sure about this. Do you have any sources? I think I read that it's difficult due to the abundance of very different aluminium alloys.

Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#35
post #14

thinking about how this works, it just astounds me how clever and creative it is from the industry standpoint. capture a word, then redefine it to conform to an existing effort. Modern recycling transfers plastic waste away from capitalisms best consumers (the west) and burdens it upon its least visible (the third world.) Its like a black hole for all the immediate problems of the indelible hell you've created. in el…

Single use plastic bags were banned here.

Two things happened as a result - the plastic thickness was increased so they can call them reusable instead of single use, and stores started charging for them.

Instead of reducing plastic waste it had the opposite effect.

Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#36
post #12
post #7

Is cost what prevents more things from being packaged in aluminum?

Aluminum isn’t transparent and can’t handle certain chemicals, but it’s not that expensive—if it’s recycled consistently. It’s routinely replaced by steel for, say, cans because that ends up being cheaper (with thinner walls), but steel is also cheaply and effectively recycled. It also often has a thin plastic layer when holding acids (like Coca-Cola), so it’s not a complete replacement.

> Aluminum isn’t transparent

"aye, how quaint"

Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#37
post #15

Is there no value in merely separating and gathering this material, even if it's all dumped in a "plastics only" landfill, as opposed to one containing other types of trash? Isn't keeping different types of waste sorted inherently useful in other ways?

Probably, but, separating is actually a really hard problem. People do not do as good of a job separating their own recycling as they think they do. Others don't care at all. MRFs are expensive due to maintenance, labor, and other operating costs, and if there's no cost recovered from the recycling there's little to fund their existence.

Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#38
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to put metals in the recycling (at least not ferrous ones) because they pick those out of the trash anyway. They just charge you extra to feel good about it.

Why do you think so?

Probably because its easy to do with a magnet so someone must be doing it already

Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#39

One of the big problems with plastic recycling is that people read "plastic recycling is a scam" but internalize "recycling is a scam". Some types of recycling are massively successful and efficient, like the recycling of vehicle lead acid batteries or post industrial steel recycling.

You don’t need to put metals in the recycling (at least not ferrous ones) because they pick those out of the trash anyway. They just charge you extra to feel good about it.

Some towns have thankfully realised that charging per-bin is silly and doesn't reflect their expenses well, so they now charge per-pickup, per-volume or per-weight, with recycling bins being generally much cheaper than mixed waste bins or even free.

Re: Plastic experts say recycling is a scam. Should we even do it anymore?

#40
post #35
post #14

thinking about how this works, it just astounds me how clever and creative it is from the industry standpoint. capture a word, then redefine it to conform to an existing effort. Modern recycling transfers plastic waste away from capitalisms best consumers (the west) and burdens it upon its least visible (the third world.) Its like a black hole for all the immediate problems of the indelible hell you've created. in el…

Single use plastic bags were banned here. Two things happened as a result - the plastic thickness was increased so they can call them reusable instead of single use, and stores started charging for them. Instead of reducing plastic waste it had the opposite effect.

> it had the opposite effect.

Are you saying that the annual total tonnage of plastic bags increased?

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