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Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

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Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#311

Post by Lutger »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #267
hakunin wrote: post #27

I've been contemplating the issue in the headline, as pertains to my value. When I help somebody in 40 mins with something they've been stuck on for 3 months, my value is clear to everyone. When I work there the whole time, and nobody ever gets stuck for 3 months, my value is unclear. Don't know how to deal with this paradox.

Don't help anyone too much until a manager asks you to help. If someone is really pressing help, tell them that you are busy, but they can ask the manager to tell me to help. This way, you always get maximum credit. Every single manager that I have worked for claimed they were "different" and did not suffer from it. Usually, I give them many chances to see my value. After I am overlooked too many times, I revert to t…

I don't know about that, you might want to receive some help yourself right? In some cases it might be better to work at a place that values cooperation more than competition. You sound like you would thrive better at such a work culture.

However, often leads just need something in order to know what you are doing, especially managers that don't really closely work together with their team. It can help to just mention it to your lead. Because it is easy to see what you done, but not how you have helped somebody. Just mention it in whatever recurrent meeting you have. And if helping out takes more time, I'd say it is only fair to have whoever is responsible for delivery involved in prioritization, because then it is at the detriment of whatever you are working on, which might be more important.

Often, it takes less than 15-30 minutes to help somebody get unstuck. I wouldn't enjoy working at a place where people would refuse to help me with something like that, or I would be so pressed to achieve things that I can't spare 30 minutes out of my day to help someone out.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#312

Post by mindentropy »

runamuck wrote: post #29
hakunin wrote: post #27

I've been contemplating the issue in the headline, as pertains to my value. When I help somebody in 40 mins with something they've been stuck on for 3 months, my value is clear to everyone. When I work there the whole time, and nobody ever gets stuck for 3 months, my value is unclear. Don't know how to deal with this paradox.

Easy - half a$$ your code and when it breaks - swoop in, "fix things" (actually do it right) and play the role of hero! (I've seen so-called "Rock Stars" at places I worked do this over and over)

I have seen so many people do this wherever I have worked. In fact there is another thing that they do i.e. when management pulls in the schedule they will meekly agree to it because they already know they are going to half-a$$ their code. Now they are heroes much before as they are "yes-men" and will be targeted for promotion. Swooping in to fix things just adds to their already loaded credentials.

The ones who are honest and actually disagree are banished and their lives are made difficult. They are called all sorts of names the most important being "not a team player".

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#313

Post by figassis »

hakunin wrote: post #27

I've been contemplating the issue in the headline, as pertains to my value. When I help somebody in 40 mins with something they've been stuck on for 3 months, my value is clear to everyone. When I work there the whole time, and nobody ever gets stuck for 3 months, my value is unclear. Don't know how to deal with this paradox.

Your managers need to understand the work that you're doing. When I review someone's code and I see them fixing something potentially catastrophic but that never happened, I definitely remember that and congratulate them. When I see a team member ask a question that makes me or the team rethink implementation strategy. That is very valuable. When a code reviewer finds a potentially critical bug in my code, or just a nuanced bug, I remember and appreciate. Because I fully understand that those are potential p0 or p1 issues.

And great engineers are consistently good at this type of passive, keeping the lights on work, but it does not reflect on their quantifiable work, so orgs do not include this in performance reviews. It is up to your manager to recognize this and advocate for you.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#314

Post by [deleted] »

iisan7 wrote: post #206
aquarkortwo wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or when someone is intelligent enough you don't figure out they're not honest until it's too late. Very true, and it may not even be malicious on their end, just avoidance and their brain rationalizing/minimizing without them realizing it.

(Otherwise known as pathological lies). To do as the saying says, and "know thyself" is difficult. People are prone to be overly harsh or generous when evaluating themselves.

[deleted]

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#315

Post by zeroonetwothree »

figassis wrote: post #313
hakunin wrote: post #27

I've been contemplating the issue in the headline, as pertains to my value. When I help somebody in 40 mins with something they've been stuck on for 3 months, my value is clear to everyone. When I work there the whole time, and nobody ever gets stuck for 3 months, my value is unclear. Don't know how to deal with this paradox.

Your managers need to understand the work that you're doing. When I review someone's code and I see them fixing something potentially catastrophic but that never happened, I definitely remember that and congratulate them. When I see a team member ask a question that makes me or the team rethink implementation strategy. That is very valuable. When a code reviewer finds a potentially critical bug in my code, or just a…

Even when they do recognize it it’s unlikely to be weighed the same as the engineer who heroically stays up all night fixing a critical issue.

Especially with many organizations focused on data or metrics for performance reviews or promotions being able to say you fixed an outage that was costing $X million per hour comes across much better than a vague counterfactual notion that your high code quality prevented Y such outages in the first place.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#316

Post by Sai_ »

I like to classify what to prioritise by how many standard deviations from the happy path a certain issue is.

For example, I’m working on a pay-as-you-go SaaS - so the probability of using the SaaS while your account balance is low is 1-SD away from the happy path.

Figuring out if the user has JavaScript enabled (SaaS is an SPA) would mean the user first signed up with JavaScript enabled, then disabled it. Id put it at 3-SD away from the happy path.

Keep doing this and work on the bugs nearest to the happy path.

Of course, the 1-SD, 3-SD estimates are just hunches.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#317

Post by Sai_ »

AlbertCory wrote: post #160

Suppose on Sept.10, 2001, you were an airline executive who successfully forced installation of jimmy-proof, secure steel doors between the cockpit and the cabin? The only "credit" you'd get is "This guy cost the airlines god-know-how-much money, and for what? An imaginary threat!"

Wow, really puts things into perspective.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#318

Post by 0xEF »

thret wrote: post #194
baxtr wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think an underrated way to deal with this phenomenon is proper self-marketing. Talk endlessly what you have done to prevent catastrophe. Describe the avoided catastrophes vividly so that people get a clear picture.

Self-promotion is incredibly difficult for some people.

And the people it comes easy to tend to be labeled as narcissistic, resulting in animosity. It's a double-edge sword.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#319

Post by yunwal »

al_borland wrote: post #197
reso wrote: post #131

This is true in a sense but also it isn't. Our institutions spend a lot of resources on preventing things from happening, are successful, and the people who work in these institutions get a paycheque every month. One could frame the entire US military budget as preventative spend.

>One could frame the entire US military budget as preventative spend. A decent percentage of the population thinks the country should reduce military spending, because they are undervaluing the preventative spend.

Or because the prevention ends up killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. Oh, and it turns out the reason you supposedly went to war in the first place is completely fake.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#320

Post by fer »

euroderf wrote: post #249
mixmastamyk wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you could dust off the old email and 'mistakenly' send it again. Though it will seem petty, a small fraction might rethink the past few months.

It might be better to keep it low-profile. Go to a superior with the story of "told ya so".

Actually any organisation worthy of the label "engineer" should do a thorough, no-blame, and collaborative post-mortem of such events so they don't happen again, and that would include warnings given.

Feature on time + risk, feature late + no risk (and anything in between), it's in the end an engineering and business decision and either choice might be the right one depending on the circumstances.

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