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Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

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Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#161

Post by arcticbull »

epolanski wrote: post #157
zx8080 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your days will be much better and the odds will be with you. In the context of one's effort valuation it seem to be a very bad advice. Unfortunately.

Intelligent people will see that you solved issues before they even happened. So in small teams where visibility is clear those things are obvious. It's in larger orgs where you want to climb the ladder that you get bonus points for the problems fixed but not those you prevented.

It also really depends on your organization and how they quantify and reward impact. There are ways to get credit for preventing issues. Establish the baseline level of quality, broadly create classes of issue, define a plan to solve that class of issue and measure your impact relative to your goals at the end.

At a big company you should be able to turn that into a number - 'this kind of issue was costing us $X/quarter, and thanks to my work, it is now costing us $(X-N)/quarter, in line with my estimates.'

It's performance season so I've been giving a lot of thought to how you quantify and attribute impact especially for folks in lower-visibility roles.

Not every company is going to see it this way but that's kind of a truism. Not every company sees any one kind of impact the same way, and you have to think about that relative to your career goals. I think aligning with your manager at the start, quantifying your impact and showing your results is going to get you the recognition you deserve at any company worth working at.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#162

Post by madrox »

hakunin wrote: post #27

I've been contemplating the issue in the headline, as pertains to my value. When I help somebody in 40 mins with something they've been stuck on for 3 months, my value is clear to everyone. When I work there the whole time, and nobody ever gets stuck for 3 months, my value is unclear. Don't know how to deal with this paradox.

Think of it this way: when a principal engineer is hired from outside the company, what is the forecasted value of that engineer? How was that determined, since they have yet to do anything? If Andrej Karpathy joined your AI startup, people won't say this person has unclear value. It's because of the impact they've had previously and what other people have to say about that person. Value is your reputation.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#163

Post by msla »

There's one thing I don't get about Y2K:

It was supposed to be banks with lots of COBOL code being impacted, right?

Banks issue 30-year mortgages.

So, why weren't banks being impacted in the early 1970s with mortgages due to be retired in the early 1900s?

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#164

Post by epolanski »

runamuck wrote: post #29
hakunin wrote: post #27

I've been contemplating the issue in the headline, as pertains to my value. When I help somebody in 40 mins with something they've been stuck on for 3 months, my value is clear to everyone. When I work there the whole time, and nobody ever gets stuck for 3 months, my value is unclear. Don't know how to deal with this paradox.

Easy - half a$$ your code and when it breaks - swoop in, "fix things" (actually do it right) and play the role of hero! (I've seen so-called "Rock Stars" at places I worked do this over and over)

There's a famous green text on 4chan, where a user tells he got a sysadmin job which was so boring he started crashing stuff left and right and blocking an entire office even for entire days.

By the end of the day he would plug back something and come out the "servers room" saying he fixed that and get everybody's praise. Even got him two raises in the span of 18 months.

That's how crazy it is.

I know a variation of this sort of story, where a good sysadmin/DevOps team was halved and then the problems started. The company didn't have those issues exactly because they had a good surplus of eyes to handle everything.

They realized only later the mistake.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#165

Post by lifeisstillgood »

I call this “I, Pencil Socialism”.

We live in a world where everyone depends on the output Of everyone else - none of us could live without farmers and hauliers, doctors and street cleaners, all of whom Build on a foundation from the past

Assigning value, billionaires collecting rent, that’s the flawed model

It’s not capitalism that makes this world possible (the assumption of I Pencil).

It’s the sharing, the trading, the leaving money on the table because it’s too complex to work out how much Elon Musk’s 3rd Grade Math teacher should get for teaching him the basics of finance.

You don’t get credit - you get to live in the modern world

If there are those who do not get to share equally in that world - that’s a bug not a feature.

We need to fix the bug.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#166

Post by epolanski »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #62
hakunin wrote: post #27

I've been contemplating the issue in the headline, as pertains to my value. When I help somebody in 40 mins with something they've been stuck on for 3 months, my value is clear to everyone. When I work there the whole time, and nobody ever gets stuck for 3 months, my value is unclear. Don't know how to deal with this paradox.

Modern “agile” systems don’t work well with you. They want you to deliver X points of features in 2 weeks. Sounds like you’d be better off as a consultant? But then you need to do all that biz dev stuff! Or find a great CTO to work for (or be the CTO) who understands. You only need one job.

I always laughed about those X points targets.

In the end people ended up simply inflating the value of stories.

In my previous team I had to argue with a person that 2 story points to add translation keys were ridiculous.

To which the EM argued that 2 was okay because he also needed to write few accompanying tests.

I have nightmares thinking about this stuff. It was literally quicker to add the translation keys and that pointless test than to even discuss and vote the story and debate the points..

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#167

Post by antihipocrat »

epolanski wrote: post #157
zx8080 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your days will be much better and the odds will be with you. In the context of one's effort valuation it seem to be a very bad advice. Unfortunately.

Intelligent people will see that you solved issues before they even happened. So in small teams where visibility is clear those things are obvious. It's in larger orgs where you want to climb the ladder that you get bonus points for the problems fixed but not those you prevented.

Intelligent people are in larger orgs too. They learn very quickly that promotions aren't tied to effort and anticipating problems or resolving future problems.

The intelligent, optimistic and genuinely good, helpful people who don't learn this (or refuse to compromise their good nature) end up burning out, getting performance managed or with PTSD

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#168

Post by ignoramous »

hakunin wrote: post #27

I've been contemplating the issue in the headline, as pertains to my value. When I help somebody in 40 mins with something they've been stuck on for 3 months, my value is clear to everyone. When I work there the whole time, and nobody ever gets stuck for 3 months, my value is unclear. Don't know how to deal with this paradox.

> Don't know how to deal

Good leaders. Or, worse: Consultants. That is, it takes either an outsider or a self-critical leader to affect change? Those doing the planning are always optimistic [0] about their decisions, processes, evaluations, and progress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planning_fallacy

[0] not always bad: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiding_hand_principle

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#169

Post by dheera »

legitster wrote: post #128
dheera wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scrum I always thought this just meant to scrumble every week to get things done with a weekly standup?

I believe it's actually a rugby term, and the idea is to wrestle things across the line at a regular cadence as a team. The unit of work is even called a sprint because the idea is specifically to commit to very intense units of work.

Some managers tell their teams that they need to be more agile, I guess when referee yells "scrumble!" everyone sprints with a lot of agility.

I'm an engineer type, most of this makes very little sense to me.

Re: Nobody ever gets credit for fixing problems that never happened (2001) [pdf]

#170

Post by eszed »

wolverine876 wrote: post #45
hakunin wrote: post #27

I've been contemplating the issue in the headline, as pertains to my value. When I help somebody in 40 mins with something they've been stuck on for 3 months, my value is clear to everyone. When I work there the whole time, and nobody ever gets stuck for 3 months, my value is unclear. Don't know how to deal with this paradox.

Life and its rewards aren't perfect. Work with honest, intelligent people; genuinely do your best; your days will be much better and the odds will be with you.

> Work with honest, intelligent people

That's such good advice.

On the same note, it's so discouraging when someone who is not/neither takes over, those people leave (one way or another), and you have to start the search again.

Or when someone is intelligent enough you don't figure out they're not honest until it's too late.

Anyone who's been around the block a time or two will accumulate those experiences. I hope I've not been jaded by mine.

> Work is with honest, intelligent people

Yes.

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