Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired • Hacker News Board

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#121

Post by HumblyTossed » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:40 PM UTC

matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

> The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

Which part is bullshit? The part where, in order to survive, everyone* needs a job? Or the part where, because everyone* needs a job, some jobs might not be as important as others?

*Y'all know what I mean.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#122

Post by pessimizer » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:41 PM UTC

matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

I agree. We are gradually discarding (again) all possible methods of resource allocation other than market capitalism, so we have to make up pretend jobs for people to do in order to give ourselves the excuse to feed them. For some reason, we think that companies should maintain this insane indirection as a public service.

We're not paying people to dig holes and fill them up as a society, instead we're demanding that centers of production and growth willingly disdain productivity in order to subsidize people digging holes and filling them up.

We'd be far better off directly subsidizing education, health care, or even customer service and scientific research than demanding that the real sources of all economic growth (and prosperity) have departments printing out reams of paper for another department to shred. Efficiency and technology lower costs and (when properly distributed) give people more time for leisure across the system. You aren't sticking it to the fat cats by telling them not to do layoffs; if you want to stick it to the fat cats, tax their profits and strip layers of economic indirection/middlemen.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#123

Post by beambot » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:41 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #95

matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

Companies reduce initiatives and headcount at the same time. It's usually approached as a budget reduction exercise: Company is reducing budgets by X%. Select which projects get cancelled. Now work with managers to identify enough employees to lay off to reduce headcount spend by X%. Now reorganize remaining employees across remaining projects, with the understanding that a few extra people will leave due to future l…

Enterprise Darwinism.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#124

Post by Jensson » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:41 PM UTC

google234123 wrote: post #89

smallmancontrov wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. The Google Graveyard really shows how far this can go. https://killedbygoogle.com The punchline is that in addition to hundreds of failed hobby projects, their stock is doing great. Monopoly rents are a helluva drug.

I never understood the complaints about this. Why shouldn’t a company try and do new things?

Yeah, not sure if it would be better if Google put all those people to work on their main products like most other companies. Google maintains their ability to launch new products by those constant launches, they are like constant small exercises, sure they usually aren't new billion dollar products but at least they still know how to launch new products fast unlike many other companies.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#125

Post by sadcodemonkey » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:41 PM UTC

kerkeslager wrote: post #104

matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

> If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? How can you be so callous? This is why people don't like startup people. Yes, obviously it's a bad thing, because those people are now without a source of income and often without health insurance. I say " obviously " because it's pretty reasonable to expect people aren't sociopaths, and c…

thank you for saying this. the archives of HN comments are going to make a fascinating case study for the next civilization explaining why this one collapsed.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#126

Post by kansface » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:41 PM UTC

nytesky wrote: post #88

matwood wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big tech clearly overhired during the pandemic. The layoffs over the last 12-24 months are a return to the mean.

It actually feels like a semi-coordinated effort to push down wages. With high inflation, workers would have demanded raises, but with the specter of layoffs, they keep their heads down. Musk bought Twitter in April 2022, had huge layoffs and then rest of tech followed in Nov 2022 onwards. Prior to current trends was it common to announce great earnings and then announce layoffs?

We went from 0% interest rate to a whole lot real quick. It used to be there was literally no overhead for over hiring if it moved the bar at all. Thats not true anymore.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#127

Post by HumblyTossed » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:42 PM UTC

no_wizard wrote: post #35

matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

Why is anyone so quick to take the company side? For starters, productivity is a broad term, so without defining what it means in context it isn’t doing anyone any favors. You won’t feel the dip or record it until after the event happens, and often not right away. When productivity drops a year from now for example, that could be due to layoffs. It’s not always immediate in its impact. I also question this from the o…

> Why is anyone so quick to take the company side?

Corporate and Political propaganda since the Powell Memo.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#128

Post by salad-tycoon » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:42 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #95

matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

Companies reduce initiatives and headcount at the same time. It's usually approached as a budget reduction exercise: Company is reducing budgets by X%. Select which projects get cancelled. Now work with managers to identify enough employees to lay off to reduce headcount spend by X%. Now reorganize remaining employees across remaining projects, with the understanding that a few extra people will leave due to future l…

Twitter shed 80% and still works, is still the go to outside of fringe empty echo chambers of the left and right divide. Not only that but they added a significant amount of features like Grok, which I know nothing about really, and Substack like payments.

80% is a lot and it works just fine. 7,500 to 1,300 in Jan 2023. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/20/twitter-is-down-to-fewer-tha...

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#129

Post by a_wild_dandan » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:42 PM UTC

UberFly wrote: post #74

I'm normally pretty pessimistic, but haven't we seen countless examples of initial panic over technology replacing jobs only to see new vistas of opportunity opening up? Hopefully that takes place in cases like this.

Technological breakthrough always causes a workforce expansion. More, diverse jobs. The "but this time it's different" people are correct. The important bit is when.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#130

Post by briantakita » Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 8:42 PM UTC

Solopreneur programmers collaborating using open source software to create businesses would be more fair. Even if it no longer makes sense to "keep the band together", the programmers have a greater chance of having something tangible to use moving forward. Non-programmers don't have the option, which is where proprietary Intellectual Property comes in. Giving everyone a share of the IP, like a co-op, would be more fair.

Perhaps this is unrealistic in most scenarios today, but it's at least worth pointing out. Perhaps the future of economic collaboration can have fairness in future progress/reward as a consideration.