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Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

mcsweeneys.net

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Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#81

Post by theropost »

matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

I think it's this is more of a real point. Honestly if someone who works in a large bureaucratic organization, the amount of people who do next to nothing is astounding. Is that a bad thing? Yes to some degree, however we do need to have jobs for people to do no matter what and if this gives them something to do everyday and they feel like they're contributing something then maybe that's all they need to do.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#82

Post by sokoloff »

cj wrote: post #72
davesque wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the sake of argument, does that mean all those employees were useless or does it mean the management isn't doing a good job of allocating them to effective work? I've been at a few companies that were rudderless and yeah, letting go of people wouldn't have made much difference because the leadership didn't know what to do with them anyway.

A lot of high growth companies simply hire too many people because too many people is usually better for maximizing growth rate than too few people. (If a company's focus shifts from maximizing growth rate to, e.g., optimizing for cash flow or profit instead of growth rate, the equation shifts and lay offs happen) Having extra people on staff who aren't needed can be good as long as you expect to need them in the nea…

Also, in a company that's growing 30% every year, hiring "10% too many" people at any given moment is an extra 4 months' of pay for 9.1% of your payroll, or about a 3% mistake in a 30% growth environment.

In a company that's growing slowly or not at all, hiring "10% too many" people is a much larger error, possibly even a disaster as it could be a full year or more worth of extra hiring in a slow growth company.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#83

Post by thefaux »

complianceowl wrote: post #23

Isn't this kind of weird? Some try to blame capitalism, but AI is not capitalism. It is technological progress. Every president and dictator, no matter what type of economy or political system they have, are trying to develop AI right now. It's something that goes beyond any economic system and is a fact and force that can't be stopped and one must simply reckon with. What we have in the US today is not capitalism. I…

Capitalism fundamentally depends on government enforcement of contracts and property rights. It is not possible to have capitalism without government interference in the economy.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#84

Post by runjake »

jimbob45 wrote: post #15
matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

Yes. Getting fired ruins lives. It causes divorces, suicides, depression, home defaults, and more. Firing and laying people off should be more painful for the company than it should be for the firees.

> Firing and laying people off should be more painful for the company than it should be for the firees.

Why? How?

You start making it painful for the company to lay off people, I anticipate they stop hiring people to minimize risk, and then unemployment shoots up and presents it's own set of (some overlapping) problems.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#85

Post by PM_me_your_math »

engineers_unite wrote: post #75
frankjr wrote: post #65

Should private for-profit companies employ people just because they can?

Pay salaries, or pay taxes. The society that enables a for-profit company to succeed is not free for the taking. Do your part.

[dead]

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#86

Post by peruvian »

no_wizard wrote: post #35
matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

Why is anyone so quick to take the company side? For starters, productivity is a broad term, so without defining what it means in context it isn’t doing anyone any favors. You won’t feel the dip or record it until after the event happens, and often not right away. When productivity drops a year from now for example, that could be due to layoffs. It’s not always immediate in its impact. I also question this from the o…

> Why is anyone so quick to take the company side?

HN has a lot of "wish I was a tech CEO" types, plus the general dose of contrarianism that runs deep in this place.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#87

Post by tehjoker »

matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

It could mean the companies are sacrificing long term investment for short term gains. Maybe some of those employees are allocated to failing projects, but it's straight out of the MBA book to kill off stuff that maintains the company position long term or innovates in service of short term bumps in profitability. That guarantees large payouts for execs and shareholders.

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#88

Post by nytesky »

matwood wrote: post #48
davesque wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the sake of argument, does that mean all those employees were useless or does it mean the management isn't doing a good job of allocating them to effective work? I've been at a few companies that were rudderless and yeah, letting go of people wouldn't have made much difference because the leadership didn't know what to do with them anyway.

Big tech clearly overhired during the pandemic. The layoffs over the last 12-24 months are a return to the mean.

It actually feels like a semi-coordinated effort to push down wages. With high inflation, workers would have demanded raises, but with the specter of layoffs, they keep their heads down.

Musk bought Twitter in April 2022, had huge layoffs and then rest of tech followed in Nov 2022 onwards.

Prior to current trends was it common to announce great earnings and then announce layoffs?

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#89

Post by google234123 »

smallmancontrov wrote: post #58
davesque wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. Companies can be rudderless and have some kind of industry capture or brand recognition and still be doing great. In other words, at one point they had good leadership or built up during times of low regulation or economic prosperity and now are just living off those early successes. A lot of large tech companies are like this.

Yeah. The Google Graveyard really shows how far this can go. https://killedbygoogle.com The punchline is that in addition to hundreds of failed hobby projects, their stock is doing great. Monopoly rents are a helluva drug.

I never understood the complaints about this. Why shouldn’t a company try and do new things?

Re: Our Company Is Doing So Well That You're All Fired

#90

Post by stetrain »

matusp wrote: post #10

If the company fires hundreds or thousands of people and there is no visible dip in the productivity, is it really a bad thing? One thing that is baffling to me is that these companies can fire 10% of their workforce and they just keep on chugging without a hitch. The bullshit job phenomenon is the problem here.

You can make pretty significant cuts to R&D and see short term revenue and productivity stay pretty level. In fact it should improve your metrics since you are spending less and selling just as many of your existing products as you were before.

Whether that is a good long term strategy is a different question.

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