Insecure software should be banned (aka, all software)
But I agree that Flipper Zero has no reason to be banned
Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
701–710 of 916 posts
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#702stupid on stupid. - it's incredibly stupid to ban the flipper zero because it's factually not even part of the problem - but it's equally stupid to "ban insecure vehicles". if kia makes a cheap car with crappy locks either don't buy it (because maybe insurance) or add and aftermarket immobilizer or a steering wheel lock. if it was really negligent of kia to "save a couple bucks", then it's equally negligent on you fo…
> if it was really negligent of kia to "save a couple bucks", then it's equally negligent on you for not spending a couple bucks.
if kids didn't want lead in their apple sauce they'd start their own testing labs.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#703Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If I left a million dollars out on my front porch, and someone stole it, that would not be my fault in any sort of way It's possible for multiple people to share the blame for something. You _are_ the victim. The person who stole it _is_ the bad guy / criminal. But you _both_ share the blame, because you did something to put yourself at risk when you had better options. If I'm out late at night, wearing expensive j…
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A strongly held opinion here seems to be that clothes manufacturers are to blame.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#704Sooo they have been stealing Infiniti's from my area recently with relative ease allegedly by using a Bluetooth obd2 reader connected to an android tablet running a pirated copy of some Nissan service tech software. Nobody from any of the Infiniti groups is 100% certain how they are doing it, but the best theory out there is above. Just the other night, a crew of dudes stole 3 Q50’s from my neighborhood with relative…
Well for one thing the OBD port shouldn’t be designed so that it has direct access to any useful CAN bus. It should go to a gateway that requires authentication to do anything except read OBD, and all of the IDs that you are allowed to send should be whitelisted. The issue people are mentioning with the headlights is easily solved by just moving the starter CAN to its own CAN bus between the immobiliser and the ECU (…
I agree fully with this, except for the fact that this then makes devices like the Comma (comma.ai) impossible. The hacker in me really wants to be able to send steering signals by plugging something into my car :)
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#705Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dude. I was just listening to my taxi driver tell me about how the UN helped him escape from war at 14 and got him to this country (Norway) where he’s been able to have a decent life. I’m not sure you know what you’re talking about.
> accomplished anything meaningful in terms of enforcing actual norms of behavior? Point being that the norm in question would be "not having the war".
Hasn't humanity been having at least one war since ... forever? I think the norm is war and what isn't normal are bullets and bombs that do far more collateral damage than "normal."
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#706Earlier quoted context omitted.
The manufacturer is not the victim here, the buyer is. If I pay a contractor to install a new door and lock on my apartment and it turns out they did a terrible job which made it trivial for a thief to break in, the contractor should be liable. Crime exists, this is the world we live in. Failing to implement even the most basic security measure, which is considered industry standard, in a high-value product that is k…
> Failing to implement even the most basic security measure, which is considered industry standard, in a high-value product that is known to be very attractive to thieves and then selling that product to consumers with no warning that "unlike most other cars on the market, which have many layers of security features, this car can be stolen using a cheap toy" makes the inevitable thefts absolutely Kia's fault. I don't…
> Kia doesn't have any kind of a monopoly in this market
No need for a monopoly, just bad incentives. All manufacturers could just decide that it's better to save more money and omit basic security features across the entire industry, making it impossible to buy a new car with certain standards. What are people going to do, not drive any cars? That's why it's near impossible to find a printer that's not garbage.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#707> Security tools like Flipper Zero are essentially programmable radios, known as Software Defined Radios (SDRs) The Flipper Zero is not a SDR, it is less capable than that. That's the ironic part, the Flipper Zero is a rather weak hacking tool. It can open car doors, but it is so impractical that it is not much more than a party trick. You have to record the code by pressing the button on the keyfob out of range of t…
At one time is was possible to open car doors with a coat hanger. Nobody suggested banning coat hangers. They fixed the doors.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#708stupid on stupid. - it's incredibly stupid to ban the flipper zero because it's factually not even part of the problem - but it's equally stupid to "ban insecure vehicles". if kia makes a cheap car with crappy locks either don't buy it (because maybe insurance) or add and aftermarket immobilizer or a steering wheel lock. if it was really negligent of kia to "save a couple bucks", then it's equally negligent on you fo…
Sure "don't ban anything", if your car crashes and kills you, "should have read Consumers' Reports". Those botulism eggs? Keep an eye things, damn it. /s This ill-informed attitude goes over well here unfortunately. And security may not be quite as pressing safety but poor security cost society besides costing the individual. When poor workers can't get to work 'cause stolen car, their bosses also suffer, when stolen…
You provide no structural basis or reasoning for these cynical assertions, nor for the implied responses. Seems to be founded on a philosophical foundation of individuals requiring safety from “elsewhere,” and assuming that “elsewhere” actually provides it.
Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#709Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero
#710Earlier quoted context omitted.
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The manufacturer is not the victim here, the buyer is. If I pay a contractor to install a new door and lock on my apartment and it turns out they did a terrible job which made it trivial for a thief to break in, the contractor should be liable. Crime exists, this is the world we live in. Failing to implement even the most basic security measure, which is considered industry standard, in a high-value product that is k…
But people ARE saying the thieves are not at fault.. “it’s just kids”, “we don’t want to put them in jail because that would ruin their future”, “they can’t pay a fine anyway so there is no point in going after them”