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Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

saveflipper.ca

241–250 of 916 posts

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a problem throughout Canada. BC also has a serious problem.

B.C. is no where as special as Quebec. The province of B.C. has never held a referendum to split. It does not have a special language police. Nor does it call itself a country :)

I’m talking about the organized crime problem, not the thing you brought up. BC has a problem with organized crime in its ports.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#242

Security via obscurity is your friend when it comes to vehicle security. There are dozens and dozens of no-start conditions for a vehicle. Just pick two and deal with the minor inconvenience.

Indeed, hidden switch on a circuit somewhere and away you don’t go!

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#243

There's a conflict of interest on the part of car manufacturers, if insurance just pays out and they get to do another sale, they're happy that your car got stolen. Also, I agree with the main point of the article, but it shouldn't be so easy for any 16yo Tom, Dick or Harry to buy a gadget and start stealing cars. If it's so easy to make with off the shelf parts, then let the 'security experts' create their own. Cons…

If insurance pays out often enough that this might actually work as a sales tactic, they don't get another sale, everyone goes to another manufacturer because insurance is so expensive.

Also most car dealers make more profit from ongoing maintenance and servicing than selling you a new car.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#244

Philosophy warning: I don't know if there is a term for it, or if a philosopher/etc. has written about this phenomenon, but: a noticeable trend to me is what I'll call "the replacement of ethical expectations with specific, written down laws." Rather than expecting a human being to behave in certain ways intrinsically (i.e., normative ethics ) we tend to assume they will behave in the worst way possible, and then pas…

> a noticeable trend to me is what I'll call "the replacement of ethical expectations with specific, written down laws."

That seems silly. Previous generations were far more likely to ban random things they didn't like vs. trusting to "ethical expectations". Prohibition? Sedition laws? Segregation? "Papers please"? Even something as comparatively benign as the Steve Jackson Games raid wouldn't happen today. Things are getting inexorably better and not worse in essentially every democracy in the world.

In fact, a noticeable trend I've noticed is one where sheltered geeks in privileged careers tend to take infringement on their personal hobbies as a general problem with society and not just a minor blip in the forest of liberty.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of discussing how car theft is fundamentally an unethical behavior What's to discuss? Is there any ambiguity about whether stealing cars is unethical? What are you bringing to that conversation that moves us forward?

I am pointing out that the response to this problem isn’t, “Hey, there is a cultural problem with society finding this acceptable” and is instead “how can we re-engineer things to prevent this?”

I don't think society finds stealing cars acceptable. That's why stealing illegal, that's why they're trying to outlaw a device that makes stealing cars easier, and why this article is trying to make it illegal to have easy-to-steal cars.

Outliers stealing cars is not a demonstration that some part of society finds that ethetical.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#247

Philosophy warning: I don't know if there is a term for it, or if a philosopher/etc. has written about this phenomenon, but: a noticeable trend to me is what I'll call "the replacement of ethical expectations with specific, written down laws." Rather than expecting a human being to behave in certain ways intrinsically (i.e., normative ethics ) we tend to assume they will behave in the worst way possible, and then pas…

Ethical norms are sufficient in a homogeneous society, but the "trustless" trend has enabled collaboration with ever larger groups of people with reduced need for trust. I'm thinking blockchains, cryptography, the stock market, the concept of limited liability, and law itself.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#248

Philosophy warning: I don't know if there is a term for it, or if a philosopher/etc. has written about this phenomenon, but: a noticeable trend to me is what I'll call "the replacement of ethical expectations with specific, written down laws." Rather than expecting a human being to behave in certain ways intrinsically (i.e., normative ethics ) we tend to assume they will behave in the worst way possible, and then pas…

Ishmael or My Ishmael touches on this subject. Thank you for reminding me. I forget exactly, but, the basic idea is primitive people didn't have all these laws about what to do. They expected you to behave, and if you did not, the tribe did not necessarily punish you, they taught you and made it right somehow (justice). Any MY description does not give this idea justice, so I need to go back and find the reference in…

That works at the scale of a tribe. We do the same thing with kids in a family: punishment (should) only happens after multiple attempts at "teaching" have failed and it's clear that what's happening is disobedience.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#249

Philosophy warning: I don't know if there is a term for it, or if a philosopher/etc. has written about this phenomenon, but: a noticeable trend to me is what I'll call "the replacement of ethical expectations with specific, written down laws." Rather than expecting a human being to behave in certain ways intrinsically (i.e., normative ethics ) we tend to assume they will behave in the worst way possible, and then pas…

> My theory is that this is a consequence of relativism and the general cultural exhaustion Western society seems to have with enforcing any sort of religious or ethical norms.

Because prior to this period of decay in the west, we don’t have a rich history of theft and violence going back as long as there has even been civilisation?

These “ethical expectations” have always been weak, and always been ignored to a greater or lesser extent. There’s never been a golden age that was crime-less due to societal ethics and you won’t find such a thing outside of the west either.

Re: Insecure vehicles should be banned, not security tools like the Flipper Zero

#250
Ultra Wideband (UWB) is the solution for keyless entry and regulators should make it a requirement that new cars use it if they want to support keyless entry.

Tesla just rolled out an OTA update to support UWB. It uses Time-of-Flight (ToF) Measurement to calculate distance which is much more secure than simply using signal strength.

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