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ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

theguardian.com

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Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#41

Post by corobo »

SushiHippie wrote: post #34
corobo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally I feel like my brain is winding down at around 11pm usually, after taking them somewhere between 7 and 9am (depending on when I pick up my phone and see the reminder to take them) Every so often I swear they've chucked a few placebos in there and I still manage to get nothing done, but aye a decent ~12 hours or so of focus/dopamine most days

This sounds great, wish it was like this for me... > Every so often I swear they've chucked a few placebos in there and I still manage to get nothing done, but aye a decent ~12 hours or so of focus/dopamine most days Perfect, I'm not the only who experiences this haha

It did take a fair bit of trial and error with different meds and dosages to find the one that actually seemed to do something - if the medication isn't working it's definitely worth reporting back to the doctor prescribing to see what the next option is

Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#42

Post by sudosysgen »

nvarsj wrote: post #37
luckydata wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. It's a disability with very serious consequences for the lifespan of people affected. Please don't repeat this pointless pseudoscientific bs. This link contains a good starting point to understanding what science knows about it. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976342...

> It's a disability with very serious consequences for the lifespan of people affected. I think this is the case for those with severe ADHD. They can't really function at all in modern society, it's a severe impediment. Vast majority of ADHD (esp. adult adhd cases, where childhood symptoms were not obvious) are nothing like that. I think this is where the idea of it being a phenotype comes in, for the mild/moderate A…

There are studies showing a large impact to life expectancy for peopke with ADHD. It is too large to be consistent for the vast majority of people having minimal to no impairment. Indeed, having ADHD that persists into adulthood leads to an average drop in life expectancy of almost 13 years.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30526189/

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...

Even for those who can function in society, ADHD causes greatly increased rates of major depression, suicide, addiction, and accidental death.

Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#43

Post by hnbad »

mo_42 wrote: post #7

I think this is a good example of how we mix up concepts: ADHD is just a phenotype. Then, our society classifies it as a condition because it does not go well with current circumstances. Although, both are separate things.

That's neurodiversity and the social model of disability in a nutshell. We've defined a very narrow set of neurotypes as normal and treat any divergence from it as a disorder. We've additionally structured society in such a way that only this very narrow set is accommodated and provided affordances, making these disorders disabling to those "suffering" from it.

It's worth remembering that ADHD drugs can be an affordance even if we accept a social model of disability and a neurodiverse view of humanity. But the systems we have built drastically exaggerate the degree to which ADHD is "inherently" disabling, e.g. not opening your mail can land you in prison. Yes of course there's more to that than it just being "mail" but the mechanism itself is more dangerous to someone with ADHD traits than someone without them.

The same goes for autism by the way: arguably there are many benefits to autistic traits (which seems odd to explain on a site like this when for the longest time programmers online used to joke that we're all autistic and when the "aspie supremacist movement" is literally a thing) but at the same time it can be extremely disabling simply due to "how we do things", e.g. having to use the phone to book an appointment or being in a noisy office full of other people in order to get paid.

It's interesting to consider not only what we could do to provide affordances and accommodations more equitably but also who else would benefit from this as a kind of inverse collateral damage.

Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#44

Post by llamaLord »

systemd wrote: post #23

A friend of mine runs a number of London psych clinics, focusing on ADHD. In a recent discussion we compared ADHD to the explorers and inventors throughout history. The aversion to the status quo and the appetite for risk are not always good for the individual but the rewards for the group may be huge if there is success.

This has always been my theory (as someone with the condition). The human species has benefitted greatly from having 3-4% of us being constantly restless and always NEEDING to know "what new thing can we do NOW!!"

Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#45

Post by corobo »

nvarsj wrote: post #35
corobo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your question: Not that I know of. To waffle freely: I believe it's lower than normal background levels of dopamine. Obligatory disclaimer I am in no way a doctor or scientist. This is probably wrong. Pinches of salt all round. This is a theory I'm kicking around now and then but I don't have the knowledge to confirm/deny the hypothesis yet. When a normal person tackles a regular task they'll get a little s…

This is basically the pop science explanation of ADHD. There is actually no scientific explanation for it.

Well aye, if there was one everyone agreed on I'd have just cited it instead of going on a mad ramble that doesn't answer the question :P

> There is actually no scientific explanation for it.

Yet! :)

Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#46

Post by Yizahi »

nvarsj wrote: post #37
luckydata wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. It's a disability with very serious consequences for the lifespan of people affected. Please don't repeat this pointless pseudoscientific bs. This link contains a good starting point to understanding what science knows about it. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S014976342...

> It's a disability with very serious consequences for the lifespan of people affected. I think this is the case for those with severe ADHD. They can't really function at all in modern society, it's a severe impediment. Vast majority of ADHD (esp. adult adhd cases, where childhood symptoms were not obvious) are nothing like that. I think this is where the idea of it being a phenotype comes in, for the mild/moderate A…

Is having a chronic rhinitis, or diabetes, or deafness, a block to function in a modern society? No, thousands are living with them mostly normal daily lives. Are they illnesses? Yes definitely, and we treat them with meds issued by doctors.

Same with ADHD - it an illness and should be treated as such. I likely have undiagnosed ADHD. I'm ill. I need and want treatment (just afraid because of that same ADHD). What's the big deal with calling illness an illness or mental health disorder? Me being ill doesn't make me a lesser human like some apologists of "new normal" try to describe. Just like my rhinitis doesn't make me a lesser human. Both are illnesses, no big deal.

Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#47

Post by doix »

I really wish there was some accurate physiological test that could be used to determine if you had ADHD or not. I _strongly_ suspect I have it. As a child I could never "focus". My parents being academics from the USSR didn't "believe" in it, they just kept forcing me to sit still and study until I did.

Eventually, I got slightly better at sitting still and "focusing". I would (and still do) fidget like crazy, either pen spinning, tapping my feet, rocking back and forth while "focusing". Focusing was just me quickly switching between what I was supposed to be doing and anything else, back and forth.

The upside is now I am basically "immune" to distractions, I can always reply to slack/my girlfriend/whatsapp messages/alerts/PR feedback/emails/questions and then go back to what I was doing 5 seconds ago without any issues. I've probably switched between this comment box and coding 20 times at this point.

I tried getting an adult diagnosis in the UK to see if maybe "proper drugs" would be helpful, but was just told politely to fuck off by the GP. The reasoning was that I have a job in tech, so even if I had ADHD, it's not bad enough to warrant any treatment. Lots of coffee and listening to "hardstyle" or any music with high BPM seems to help me focus.

Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#48

Post by sudosysgen »

doix wrote: post #47

I really wish there was some accurate physiological test that could be used to determine if you had ADHD or not. I _strongly_ suspect I have it. As a child I could never "focus". My parents being academics from the USSR didn't "believe" in it, they just kept forcing me to sit still and study until I did. Eventually, I got slightly better at sitting still and "focusing". I would (and still do) fidget like crazy, eithe…

Hey, I have had almost exactly the same experience, from the childhood experienice down to the music. For me, the functional impairment was also in things outside work, which is eventually how I got someone to refer me to a neuropsychiatrist for the full battery of tests. The treatment ended up being very helpful, but mostly for my personal life and general health.

Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#49

Post by AmalgatedAmoeba »

doix wrote: post #47

I really wish there was some accurate physiological test that could be used to determine if you had ADHD or not. I _strongly_ suspect I have it. As a child I could never "focus". My parents being academics from the USSR didn't "believe" in it, they just kept forcing me to sit still and study until I did. Eventually, I got slightly better at sitting still and "focusing". I would (and still do) fidget like crazy, eithe…

It’s not a disorder if it’s not sufficiently disruptive :-) There are no absolutes in psychology.

Re: ADHD may have been an evolutionary advantage, research suggests

#50

Post by selfmodruntime »

neom wrote: post #39
herbst wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner tried a lot (and went trough weird other diagnosis) and found her solution in simple dextroamphetamine. It's a life changer for her and our relationship as well :) also very cheap as it's no protected substance. Around here many are deemed to get ritalin first or other similarly weird substances which has way more side effects for some than good ol' amphetamine.

I was on Adderall for about 10 years, when I moved to Asia I discovered 'amphs are banned, so they put me on Ritalin. Holy mother of god how people tolerate that stuff is beyond me. Over the course of an hour, I'd oscillate between wanting to go to the gym, anger, and horny. Had to discontinue using it for fear I'd kill someone during the anger phase. I've tried many substanced but I gotta say... Ritalin is high on t…

Crossing my fingers. My drugstore didn‘t have Metylphinidat, so I had to go for ritalin. Trying it next week.
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