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Sora could ruin peoples lives

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Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#161

Post by skydhash »

jdiff wrote: post #151
satisfice wrote: post #140

Sora, in imitating art, also subtly discourages it. How? Well, in ordinary movie making, various artists collaborate to channel a vision into video. The instrumentation (and sets, etc.) they use to do this entails millions of degrees of freedom. They have freedom to create that goes beyond any words that may describe it. Pre-trained generative models have many fewer degrees of freedom. For instance, try asking Bing t…

This is something I rarely see addressed. AI proponents always fall back to "it's just a new tool, just like all the old new tools that made things easier" but all the old new tools only opened up more degrees of freedom by automating away tedium. So much generative AI automates away the creativity leaving only the tedium, and leaving limited ways to even create. If I have a vision, I cannot pull that out of my head…

And that's why I can't enjoy generated content over something produce by an human. More often than not, a human has an agency and something novel to bring into the domain space. But AI has always been about what's common to everything it knows. Humans expand, AI reduces.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#162

Post by thefz »

lxe wrote: post #22

I'm not a fan of this sort of takes. History has shown time and time again that pretty much any technological innovation is a net good, despite the protests of the luddites. Progressive creatives see this type of tech as a tool to simplify and re-adapt their process. The post author is 16, and an aspiring animator. If their attitude is to be scared of tech, instead of being insanely curious about it, they are not on…

> If their attitude is to be scared of tech, instead of being insanely curious about it, they are not on the right path to become a creative

Might or might not be, but it's not up to you to gatekeep creativity.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#163

Post by raindeer2 »

starbugs wrote: post #99
raindeer2 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Emotions are concepts our internal model has learned when trying to model itself. For a system to experience what we describe as pain, it needs to receive sensory input which it predicts signals that something is damaging its internal state, and then model/describe/represent itself as something that has this experience. Such as system would, like you do, believe it is experiencing pain.

> Emotions are concepts our internal model has learned when trying to model itself. Do you have a source to underpin that claim? (Honest question.) > For a system to experience what we describe as pain, it needs to receive sensory input which it predicts signals that something is damaging its internal state, and then model/describe/represent itself as something that has this experience. And then the system would feel…

Check out How Emotions Are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain, by L. Barrett. But I probably take it a bit further than that :)

The system would believe it is experiencing pain. Its model of itself would use the pain concept to describe itself, and it would believe it is experiencing it. And this description would be accurate since it is getting damaged.

I would argue that pain, like any interpretation of sensory input, are believes. "experience of a feeling" is equal to interpreting sensory input in a certain way.

But due to the way we are constructed, we cannot unbelieve certain things. It is like when you see a tree, you cannot decide to not see a tree after you have seen it. Or when you see a 2D projection of a 3D cube. You have to see the cube, even if you know it is not there since it is actually just a bunch of lines on a paper. This makes this type of belief different from other types of beliefs we hold which we easily can change our mind about, like what the weather will be like tomorrow.

It's the same thing with pain. You cannot stop believing in the interpretation of the sensory data that we describe as pain. And this "pain belief" is tied to certain behaviors, like trying to avoid it, since it is built into our reward system that it is negative. The reason we cannot easily "unbelieve" pain is that it would be very dangerous if we could simply ignore it. This is also why we are wired so that love is so hard to unbelieve, reproduction would fail in a species that could easily change their mind on the "love belief" about their offspring or partners.

If you think about phantom limb pain, it is quite clear that it is just a belief/model, and in that case an inaccurate one.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#164

Post by AirborneUnicorn »

Animats wrote: post #86
habitue wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, there is plenty of space for humans on earth right now. I'm not talking about in uninhabitable places, I mean in amazing fertile locations. Real world space is a luxury because of bad regulation in places with good governments and other places having bad governments (you didn't imply otherwise, but I know there's a common misconception that space is running out and the world is overcrowded. It's largely…

Those places aren't where the money is. SF can't even get homeless people to move somewhere else.

Is SF expected to have its people without homes moved somewhere else as a solution to this social problem? What a bizarre notion, unless I misunderstand you.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#165

Post by Ekaros »

y04nn wrote: post #85
djbusby wrote: post #2

Well I thought it was gonna be about the hostile deep-fakes but it's about career threat for creatives. I do wish the robots were doing more mundane or labour intensive tasks and leave the art to humans.

The fact is that machines have already replaced manual labor, just look at the machines and trucks in a mine, a factory or in agriculture. It already happened, one person work is leveraged to replace a thousand.

And this has not been a bad thing... Same goes for writing, printing, music on whatever physical or digital medium, films, TV...

We have all benefited from mass replication of mediums that before required someone to work for each performance.

I don't see why generation of content should be treated any different. And humans might always keep an edge on this. Well crafted coherent product with decent direction often feels better than a bland one. I really wonder how soon AI can replicate the first one.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#166

Post by SebFender »

For my team, AI augments our capabilities and helps automate routine and mundane tasks. So, all I can say at the moment is positive as it enables us to focus on complex and new tasks that actually requires a human.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#167

Post by Ekaros »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #152
j2kun wrote: post #48

The responses in that thread are basically telling a 16 year old kid that their feelings are wrong and they should shut up and get on board.

It didn't seem wrong before to tell 16 year olds that a career in art was a nebulous plan. It certainly wasn't a stable career path before sora, even if some find a way to make it work.

I don't understand why we are not more realistic with 16 to 18 year olds. Tell them some real experiences and statistics from real world careers. Both from top and below average.

That is at least give them the tools to evaluate if they want to commit to something and what that might mean as normal outcome.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#168

Post by SebFender »

cryptozeus wrote: post #4

Very good discussion there. “I am 68 years old, on the opposite spectrum of life’s journey. At your age, I had the same passion to be a writer. But when personal computers became available just a few years later, that passion changed to becoming a computer programmer. I’ve been doing that ever since. My point is: Don’t lose your passion. Learn everything you can about this new technology and figure out how to use it…

100% - but you know many will go - this time it's different!

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#169

Post by starbugs »

raindeer2 wrote: post #163
starbugs wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emotions are concepts our internal model has learned when trying to model itself. Do you have a source to underpin that claim? (Honest question.) > For a system to experience what we describe as pain, it needs to receive sensory input which it predicts signals that something is damaging its internal state, and then model/describe/represent itself as something that has this experience. And then the system would feel…

Check out How Emotions Are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain, by L. Barrett. But I probably take it a bit further than that :) The system would believe it is experiencing pain. Its model of itself would use the pain concept to describe itself, and it would believe it is experiencing it. And this description would be accurate since it is getting damaged. I would argue that pain, like any interpretation of sensory inp…

> I would argue that pain, like any interpretation of sensory input, are believes. "experience of a feeling" is equal to interpreting sensory input in a certain way.

In other words: "Pain isn't real"? Are you serious?

Again, is there any reliable source for that other than a whole book that probably doesn't even talk about what you claim? If it is in the book, can you give a detailed reference where to find it? And if so, does the book provide references to research underpinning those claims?

Or did you just come up with that on your own? It sounds absolutely ridiculous to me. Any attempt to "model" the experience is prone to fail by lack of evidence because pain is, by definition, subjective.

If you just search for the definitions of belief, emotion and pain, you will quickly find that their meanings are distinct. Claiming that pain is a belief is absurd.

Re: Sora could ruin peoples lives

#170

Post by rubslopes »

Fraterkes wrote: post #43
cryptozeus wrote: post #4

Very good discussion there. “I am 68 years old, on the opposite spectrum of life’s journey. At your age, I had the same passion to be a writer. But when personal computers became available just a few years later, that passion changed to becoming a computer programmer. I’ve been doing that ever since. My point is: Don’t lose your passion. Learn everything you can about this new technology and figure out how to use it…

Sorry, these sorts of comments seem kind and well-intended, but we have to be real here and allow for the possibility that an impressive advancement has many (or mostly) negative effects. If you got into art because you enjoy drawing and modeling and wanted to make THAT your job (not just abstractly "producing pictures") then these advancements are just obviously a negative development, no matter how you try to refra…

Also, people are saying "artist will keep being artists, they will just use a different tool", but IMO this doesn't take into account that prompt engineering is a completely different activity than actually drawing something. Sure, a pencil on paper artist can adapt and use a stylus to keep up with modern trends if they have to; most of their ability with drawing is kept. But describing a scene a thousand times with minor variations until you get what you want... That's a whole new job.
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