This is criminal. After decades I finally had the ability to develop for iOS without a Mac and a yearly $99 fee - only for it to be crippled again?
It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
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Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
#12Any chance we can get the original title which doesn't sound so childish: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU And if PWA were such a threat to Apple's business then why are they allowed in US.
IIRC In the EU apple may be forced to open up iOS to other browsers, including PWA using non-safari engines.
Not sure why this is such a threat.
I’m torn on this whole issue. I both enjoy my walled garden and want full-fat Firefox on iOS.
Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
#13Apps are standalone user experiences. Native apps play by the operating system's security rules, while web domains operate within the sandbox of the browser. Web apps are just websites in standalone mode. If you misunderstand web apps as some wicked things coming out of your trusted browser to party on your device, you might not see clearly in the Apple vs. EU debate. Apple just made their true target crystal clear:…
I agree with all of this except for your bafflement. Justice doesn’t always prevail and Apple’s legal gambit might work.
Remember how Microsoft got in legal trouble for bundling software in the 90s? A judge ruled that Microsoft had to be broken up for their monopolistic and anticompetitive practices. And today Microsoft has leveraged the popularity of Excel and Powerpoint to get every business to use Teams and the rest of the suite.
Sometimes big business can just defy the courts and get away with it.
Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
#14> It’s telling that this is the feature that Apple refused to share. And it makes sense: the idea that users could install safe and secure apps that Apple can’t tax, block or control is terrifying to them.
I think that’s what this decision is all about. When Safari was the only browser engine on iOS, PWAs didn’t threaten the App Store because Safari delivers a degraded experience with them.
With alternative browser engines mandated by law, Apple faced the possibility that Chrome or Firefox might make PWAs easy to discover, easy to install, and feature-complete. They might have begun to see serious adoption and investment. I think Apple did not want to risk letting that happen.
Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
#15This is criminal. After decades I finally had the ability to develop for iOS without a Mac and a yearly $99 fee - only for it to be crippled again?
> I finally had the ability to develop for iOS without a Mac
Cordova, React Native, Xamarin, Flutter etc.
Seems like the only thing criminal here is your inability to use Google.
Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
#16Did anyone actually ever put web apps on their home screen?
Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
#17Apps are standalone user experiences. Native apps play by the operating system's security rules, while web domains operate within the sandbox of the browser. Web apps are just websites in standalone mode. If you misunderstand web apps as some wicked things coming out of your trusted browser to party on your device, you might not see clearly in the Apple vs. EU debate. Apple just made their true target crystal clear:…
> Apple just made their true target crystal clear: they have always been aiming at web capabilities: Not what Jobs said http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vq993Td6ys Originally there wasn’t an SDK at all.
When you have a tiny market share, argue for open standards. When you gain the majority, close the gates and pull up the ladder. Oldest playbook in tech. We've particularly seen it many many times with chat platforms.
Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
#18The creation of the Vision Pro, and now this direct assault on the open web, makes me believe that Apple is no longer has the vision to lead the industry effectively. It's a shame because it has enormous momentum behind it, which means every bad decision, like this one, will be felt be millions of people for years.
could you please elaborate on how/what the Vision Pro contributes to this problem?
Apple not allowing the open web stifles innovation, including the AVP. The apps in the app store will be dictated by Apple. So whatever their ethical framework is, that is what will receive innovation.
While that seems fair, the problem is that the strongest form of software innovation I have seen is where developers can freely plug in.
Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
#19Apps are standalone user experiences. Native apps play by the operating system's security rules, while web domains operate within the sandbox of the browser. Web apps are just websites in standalone mode. If you misunderstand web apps as some wicked things coming out of your trusted browser to party on your device, you might not see clearly in the Apple vs. EU debate. Apple just made their true target crystal clear:…
> Apple just made their true target crystal clear: they have always been aiming at web capabilities: Not what Jobs said http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vq993Td6ys Originally there wasn’t an SDK at all.
You are right. At the very beginning, Safari was innovation and Jobs wanted the web succeed. I meant of course the period when webkit was the only browser engine allowed and Apple claimed the reason was they wanted security etc. Now it is clear that even then, the true target was web capabilities and the hindrance of them via webkit control. Now that they use iOS to disallow these modern web capabilities in competing browser engines too, they admit to their true target of the past 10 years or so too.
Re: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU
#20Any chance we can get the original title which doesn't sound so childish: It’s Official, Apple Kills Web Apps in the EU And if PWA were such a threat to Apple's business then why are they allowed in US.
IIRC In the EU apple may be forced to open up iOS to other browsers, including PWA using non-safari engines. Not sure why this is such a threat. I’m torn on this whole issue. I both enjoy my walled garden and want full-fat Firefox on iOS.
It's unfortunate that the whole discourse is about one of the worst imaginable outcomes: replacing apps with shitty slow bloated underperforming web apps.
That is, the discourse is valid, and Apple is to blame. But why did it have to be around PWAs of all things?