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Alexei Navalny has died

reuters.com

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Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#641

Post by alumnisfu »

avmich wrote: post #624

I'm trying to compare Alexei with some other known political figures. For Americans, I think Alexei is roughly comparable to MLK. USA was able to gradually turn from some positions to different others. For Russia it seems the current situation is still the fall to the deeper chasms of self-destruction.

> I'm trying to compare Alexei with some other known political figures. For Americans, I think Alexei is roughly comparable to MLK.

If you are comparing him to MLK, you've not seen Navalny's videos on Central Asians I guess (in case you need a summary: compares them to insects that need to be exterminated then kills one with a handgun).

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#642

Post by mynameisnoone »

cyrillite wrote: post #500
aerique wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why he went back to Russia.

Martyrdom. Navalny calculated that this process would be watched and documented through to the very end. He hoped that might be significant, perhaps even sufficient.

Yes. Unfortunately, he miscalculated and threw his life away by failing to appreciate the conditions. Similar to standing in front of a tank in Tiananmen Square, this was and now proved to be a ineffective and futile act in a country whose populace refuses to stand up to Putin, oppression, or corruption. It's likely Putin will continue to be the de facto "elected" dictator of Russia until he dies and his oligarch pals replace him with someone equally terrible. The Russian people lack the will, organization, and moral courage to overthrow their klepto-plutocrat dictator.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#643

Post by logicchains »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #526
kemotep wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose the west avoids conflict with Russia and China? Is there any examples in history of appeasement leading to less bloodshed?

it is only possible to reduce not to avoid bloodshed. Russia does not honor the rules of law so we should not negotiate with them in good faith. They are a terrorist state. UN Charter Budapest Memorandum INF Treaty Minsk 2 / Minsk 1 ... The only solution are preemptive strikes against Russian interests.

By rules of law you mean international law? By that logic we should also commit preemptive strikes against Israel to prevent it committing what is recognised by the internal community as genocide.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#644

Post by obscurette »

aerique wrote: post #385
telesilla wrote: post #35

The 2022 documentary 'Navalny' is important and explains how the anti-corruption campaigner got to that terrible place, being poisoned with a Novichok nerve agent and still deciding to go back to Russia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navalny_(film) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF_HsKCWEHw (trailer)

I never understood why he went back to Russia.

That's the reason why we have Russia we know today and I'm afraid that we'll see more countries taking this path in coming years. Almost million russians left country during last two years alone. But if everyone against regime leaves, who have to fight for better country? Or do you really think that it's more effective to shout in Twitter?

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#645

Post by risyachka »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #625
cglace wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

“America bad” is the opium of the masses. IMO, if any random country’s government whom we are not allied with through NATO publicly criticizes the USA’s response to helping them out in a war that we have no obligation to help with, I believe we should immediately cease any and all financial aid and let them feel the squeeze. When they publicly apologize and recognize that the United States is truly the only thing kee…

Is is not any non-nato country. Have you heard of Budapest memorandum?

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#646

Post by coffeebeqn »

acuozzo wrote: post #511
amai wrote: post #406

A 47 year old man killed by the 72 year old president. Nothing shows the conflict of generations in Russia better than this. The old farts of Russia/Soviet Union are killing the younger generation and by that are killing Russias future. For what, grandpa? For what?

What future? Between the war in Afghanistan in the 1980s and the collapse of the USSR, Russia has only a few generations left before experiencing demographic collapse. There simply aren't enough young men there to keep the Russian population growing and the population there doesn't value diversity enough to consider producing more Russian children with immigrants. This is what many believe (e.g., Peter Zeihan) to be…

Is this any different from any other country? I don’t think their birth rates are that different from South Korea or Italy or Canada

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#647

Post by logicchains »

The_Colonel wrote: post #247
flanked-evergl wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US has relevant party that is now openly pro-Putin What relevant party in the US is openly pro-Putin?

Recently Trump said that if Putin invaded Europe, he (Trump) "would encourage Russia to do whatever the hell they wanted to you". It's not full pro-Russia yet, but he's certainly moving in that direction. Unfortunately, Trump is currently the republican party.

The full context is he said if those European countries did not meet their NATO defense spending obligations he'd let Putin do what he wants with them.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#648

Post by avmich »

alumnisfu wrote: post #641
avmich wrote: post #624

I'm trying to compare Alexei with some other known political figures. For Americans, I think Alexei is roughly comparable to MLK. USA was able to gradually turn from some positions to different others. For Russia it seems the current situation is still the fall to the deeper chasms of self-destruction.

> I'm trying to compare Alexei with some other known political figures. For Americans, I think Alexei is roughly comparable to MLK. If you are comparing him to MLK, you've not seen Navalny's videos on Central Asians I guess (in case you need a summary: compares them to insects that need to be exterminated then kills one with a handgun).

I think I'm quite familiar with Alexei's actions.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#649

Post by Lutger »

cooper_ganglia wrote: post #625
cglace wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has provided more funding to Ukraine than the world combined by a large margin, and the lesson you take away is that the US is somehow at fault. The one bill that was blocked by Congress would be more support than Europe as a whole has provided to Ukraine to date. While I agree that European countries should start to take their defense seriously I don't see how you fault US support of Ukraine.

“America bad” is the opium of the masses. IMO, if any random country’s government whom we are not allied with through NATO publicly criticizes the USA’s response to helping them out in a war that we have no obligation to help with, I believe we should immediately cease any and all financial aid and let them feel the squeeze. When they publicly apologize and recognize that the United States is truly the only thing kee…

It is not about what America has or hasn't done, good or bad, but all about the possibility of Trump. The idea of the US getting a president as immature as yourself, who rather aligns himself with the gangsters of the world, whose idea of diplomacy is beg-for-mercy-who-is-your-daddy-now oneliners, that is what scares Europa into self-reliance.

Since Trump, the US might not be the US anymore in the future. It might break its promises, withdraw from NATO, from Paris and any other treaty it has made. War is coming closer to us, we cannot rely on a US that is actively flirting with authoritarianism.

Hopefully not, but it is a very real possibility. And we are not ready for it.

Re: Alexei Navalny has died

#650

Post by coffeebeqn »

endigma wrote: post #626

Its funny to me that with the current state of Russia this guy could have died with absolutely zero interference from the state and the rest of the world will assume he was killed no matter what comes out of Russian media, purely due to their track record with this sort of thing.

Funny how the Russian gov poisoned him and sent him to Siberia to a labor camp. They had nothing to do with it!
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