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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#651

Post by jsjohnst »

brookst wrote: post #642
TheCapeGreek wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>technical solution looking for a problem In some regards yes. In practical regards they're a threat to app store margins (on all app stores, not just Apple), so there's no incentive to truly support them other than developers being loud about it. >I don’t even know where to find one. Because Apple has crippled the ability for you to use them, so developers can't really spend time working on them. Chicken and egg pro…

Isn’t all regulation about activities, not outcomes? If a regulator enforces a ban on dihydrogen monoxide in a misguided attempt to reduce global warming, should companies comply with the regulation or the presumed intent? The EU is demonstrating the folly of legislation tech product design at this level of detail.

> dihydrogen monoxide

Heh! Also known as hydroxyl acid. It’s the major component of acid rain.

;)

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#652

Post by grotorea »

dangus wrote: post #343
shuckles wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the advocate retort is that lack of support on iOS makes them a nonstarter for developers on all platforms. I think this argument is more of an excuse.

Right, Android has something like 70% global marketshare. PWAs aren’t popular because they don’t really benefit developers/businesses. They also don’t offer any advantages in user experience over a native app. Apart from the economics, there’s no developer friction advantage since you can use something like react native and deploy anywhere. The kind of deep user information you can gather by installing a full blown a…

70% of marketshare isn't the important part, it's what the share of potential revenue is. And it's well know that iOS has more revenue per user.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#653

Post by d1sxeyes »

I’m a bit of a hobby coder, and I have enjoyed writing small, home cooked apps (https://www.robinsloan.com/notes/home-cooked-app/) and publishing them as PWAs that my friends and family can enjoy. I can’t justify an annual 99 USD for an Apple developer licence, and my family have a mix of iPhones and Androids.

This step makes it much less possible for me to do this kind of “home cooked” development, and it makes me sad.

I think Apple would do well to offer a solution for folks like me, maybe a significant discount (or free?) developer accounts for folks with apps with fewer than 50 users or no App Store access, etc.

But I guess they don’t really care, which is sad.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#654

Post by dickersnoodle »

kristiandupont wrote: post #439
dangus wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, Android has something like 70% global marketshare. PWAs aren’t popular because they don’t really benefit developers/businesses. They also don’t offer any advantages in user experience over a native app. Apart from the economics, there’s no developer friction advantage since you can use something like react native and deploy anywhere. The kind of deep user information you can gather by installing a full blown a…

There is great value in building one product instead of three. >The kind of deep user information you can gather by installing a full blown app compared to a more sandboxed web app is worth way more than the 30% royalty cut. What kind of information is that?

Great value to whom? The only value I've ever heard of that made any sense at all was "saves me money and lets me change things and publish them faster" and that (as other commenters have said) is a developer / manager value, not a user value.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#655

Post by DeusExMachina »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #647
rmbyrro wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike how Apple is evolving as an evil corporate, but they seem to have a real security and privacy concern on this issue.

I completely understand that companies will defend their own business interests. But the extent to which Apple has been leaning on spurious security arguments in order to do that is really starting to damage their reputation and in fact the security of their platforms. Clearly, they're just making a point here, hurting developers and users just to spite a regulator. What they are signalling to me as a developer is th…

I usually do not like these moves from Apple. For example, I strongly dislike all the new guidelines they added to comply with the introduction of alternative payment systems.

However, I'm on their side in this case. I run a business. If having a feature comply with some regulation meant implementing a whole infrastructure I don't have to serve a minority of customers, I would also abandon the feature.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#656

Post by fsflover »

sunshinerag wrote: post #619
trinsic2 wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather trust a public (not-for-profit) institution that actually had a real incentive to protect user security. Instead we get for-profit companies that have a vested interest (conflict of interest) to do security the way it thinks it should be done. In my experience, that usually is bad for the people that are using the platform because there is no real surety that security is being done for the sake of the user…

Which public institutions do you find have real concern for their users? In which country?

https://eff.org, https://fsfe.org, https://edri.org.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#657

Post by mckn1ght »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #293
mckn1ght wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you should be comparing is the percentage of the market the EU represents in the total market available to Apple. EU politicians are accountable to their population. Apple’s CEO is accountable to every Apple customer. The EU does not now, nor has it ever, constituted a majority of Apple revenue.

I don't believe the concept of a market has any fundamental place in morality, and my morality isn't limited to any particular "market". Indeed, who apple is or isn't able to sell to, doesn't affect what people think is moral or immoral. As for Apple's CEO representing Apple's customers: Are you sure? We didn't elect him. We just bought stuff made by an organization he currently runs.

So you think government can prove morality, but markets cannot? If you don't think government is a marketplace where the currency is political capital, then you have a naive view of how governments work. Also, I don't believe the EU is a direct democracy, so the representative morality is lossy. Have you never disagreed with a decision made by a politician you voted for?

I'm saying that customers decide whether or not to buy from Apple based on whether they resonate with them from a moral standpoint, at least as part of their decision to purchase their products. And I said Apple's CEO is accountable to their customers, not that they represent them. Yes, they're also accountable to shareholders, as your sibling comment points out. But if the company screws up enough to elicit a popular boycott, you can bet the reason shareholders will be exercising that accountability is due to the actions of the customer base.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#658

Post by fauigerzigerk »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #655
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely understand that companies will defend their own business interests. But the extent to which Apple has been leaning on spurious security arguments in order to do that is really starting to damage their reputation and in fact the security of their platforms. Clearly, they're just making a point here, hurting developers and users just to spite a regulator. What they are signalling to me as a developer is th…

I usually do not like these moves from Apple. For example, I strongly dislike all the new guidelines they added to comply with the introduction of alternative payment systems. However, I'm on their side in this case. I run a business. If having a feature comply with some regulation meant implementing a whole infrastructure I don't have to serve a minority of customers, I would also abandon the feature.

Apple isn't just any business though. They are a multi-trillion platform company. I expect them to prioritise backward compatibility over spiting regulators and over itemised profitability considerations.

They could have implemented this feature securely but they chose to use the opportunity to make a point instead.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#659

Post by niutech »

MrDresden wrote: post #577
niutech wrote: post #169

Bad move from Apple. It's time to boycott iOS and move to FOSS alternatives, such as: AOSP, Ubuntu Touch, GNOME Mobile, KDE Plasma, Sailfish OS. Personally I am using both UBports and Sailfish OS and I appreciate the privacy they provide. As a possible workaround to fullscreen PWAs in iOS in the EU, I propose a convention to append some hash to the Web App Manifest start_url, e.g. #__pwa__, then set the default iOS w…

I love selfhosting/flashing as much as the next person, but why do you believe going AOSP would be the next step away from iOS? Someone moving of iOS should just pick up a Nokia device with a stock standard Android OS. It will serve them fine without all the hassle of flashing. If they want a higher end device with stock Android, go for a Pixel.

Because it's replacing one closed OS for another closed OS. AOSP is open source and unlike stock Android it doesn't have a bunch of preinstalled spying apps from Google/Samsung/you-name-it which you cannot easily uninstall.

Plus Nokia is no more: https://www.gizchina.com/2024/02/01/mobile-phone-brand-trans...

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#660

Post by nonethewiser »

oblio wrote: post #395
nonethewiser wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How is it a mob if it's democratically elected? People have the most random and poorly thought out talking points.

Nothing says a mob cant be democratically elected. Many mobs have had wide support by their community

Its more the shakedowns I’m talking about.

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