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German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

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Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#41

Post by tietjens »

ArmandGrillet wrote: post #37

Finally. Germany combines some of the worst aspects of the US (credit ranking, complicated abortion process, private healthcare if you want decent treatments) with the worst aspects of Europe (low digitalization, high taxation, recursive federalism: within the country and within the EU). A country like the Netherlands has its own issues (mainly housing) but doesn't have the myriad of pain points you can find in Germa…

Hello from Germany. No lies detected. Don’t forget about a working culture where process always ranks above results, and leaders commonly lack confidence to make pragmatic decisions.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#42

Post by kioleanu »

fmbb wrote: post #22
mschild wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change it to what though? On the one hand, I think Schufa is collecting a lot of unnecessary data that they should'nt have access to. For example, when I bought a pre-paid SIM card in Germany the provider did a Schufa check. No idea why. On the other hand, I get why a credit score can be useful for larger purchase decisions. If I was a bank, I'd like to know if the person I'm lending 400k for a property, has in the p…

A good middle ground could be to only check what you suggested the bank wants to know: “Has this person defaulted before?” If someone wants to borrow huge sums from a bank the bank should take the risk and price it appropriately. If someone wants to borrow money to buy a TV the seller should take the risk and price it appropriately. The current solution seems too invasive for what it provides. How is the world better…

Schufa for buying stuff and Schufa for banks are two different branches, meaning that if I buy something with Klarna, they’ll query a Wchufa service for online purchases. A bank credit will query another service from Schufa, which probably tells them what other loans I have and will put a huge dent in the score

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#43

Post by robert_foss »

ArmandGrillet wrote: post #37

Finally. Germany combines some of the worst aspects of the US (credit ranking, complicated abortion process, private healthcare if you want decent treatments) with the worst aspects of Europe (low digitalization, high taxation, recursive federalism: within the country and within the EU). A country like the Netherlands has its own issues (mainly housing) but doesn't have the myriad of pain points you can find in Germa…

This is entirely correct. Having lived both in North America and Sweden this is a very accurate description.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#44

Post by [deleted] »

josefx wrote: post #28
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't. I financed my phone for free via Klarna. I could easily pay it at once but why would I. In the end I save a bit because of inflation.

> I financed my phone for free via Klarna So how do they make money? Sounds like they would be losing money to inflation by offering that service for free.

[deleted]

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#45

Post by kioleanu »

vdaea wrote: post #16
calmoo wrote: post #14

Some fun features of SCHUFA in Germany: 1. If you apply for a loan, this affects your credit rating. Yes - not get a loan, or default on a loan, simply by applying for a loan, your SCHUFA can be affected negatively. Especially if you are shopping around for loans, this is infuriating. This happens because your SCHUFA is affected simply by another entity checking your SCHUFA score. This is also really annoying because…

Using a service like Klarna means you're bad at dealing with money, so it makes sense.

I use Klarna (albeit rarely) to only pay _after_ any returns are completed and only the amount I need. Not pay upfront and then wait good know how long for three online shop to return my money. I always pay well before the deadline.

My bank just scraped virtual cards and I use them for online payments so I wanted to use Klarna as a virtual card. Went through the whole process only for it to fail at the end with Klarna saying that they can’t generate that card, but I should go talk to Schufa or Arvato about it.

So, not all use cases are bad and Schufa should distinguish between them.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#46

Post by Mountain_Skies »

alibarber wrote: post #25
calmoo wrote: post #14

Some fun features of SCHUFA in Germany: 1. If you apply for a loan, this affects your credit rating. Yes - not get a loan, or default on a loan, simply by applying for a loan, your SCHUFA can be affected negatively. Especially if you are shopping around for loans, this is infuriating. This happens because your SCHUFA is affected simply by another entity checking your SCHUFA score. This is also really annoying because…

Applying for a loan affecting your credit report also was/is a thing in the UK - but I think banks realised that it was hurting their business (they want to sell you a credit card/loan after all, and aren't going to if people are scared to ask them for it). So now it's a gimmick that's splashed all over their websites that you can get a quote with only a 'soft search' that doesn't affect your report. Even though, if…

Don't about the UK but in the US there used to be a big privacy problem around people who worked at banks and car dealerships looking up credit reports for non-business reasons. Soft inquiries are a way to combat that by making every request to view a person's credit report into a recorded event that the person can see.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#48

Post by dmurray »

vdaea wrote: post #26
BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't. I financed my phone for free via Klarna. I could easily pay it at once but why would I. In the end I save a bit because of inflation.

Unless either your salary or the price of the phone increased in those months, you didn't save anything.

Or if there was literally anything else he'd prefer to buy up front than wait until he'd saved up enough to replace the cost of the phone.

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#49

Post by purpleflame1257 »

BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #20
vdaea wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using a service like Klarna means you're bad at dealing with money, so it makes sense.

It isn't. I financed my phone for free via Klarna. I could easily pay it at once but why would I. In the end I save a bit because of inflation.

Bad at dealing with money isn't necessarily true. Better to say "has outstanding financial obligations."

Re: German credit agency earns millions through unlawful customer manipulation

#50

Post by kioleanu »

ttyyzz wrote: post #12

You can request a free “data copy in accordance with Art. 15 GDPR”, which according to them “contains information that you should treat sensitively.” and further: “SCHUFA therefore advises against passing it on to third parties.” The product they market, the “credit report”, costs €30 and, according to them, is “forgery-proof” and “up to date” (lolz). I don't know the main differences to the free "data copy" - probab…

The free report is the list of entries they have on your name. Based on that they calculate scores and risks, but you don’t have access to those numbers unless you pay.

They did buy an app last year called Bonify that allows you to see your credit score for free. There was a hilarious scandal last year as a security expert was able to get some high politicians credit score through the app and they shut the app down for a few days so this doesn’t get exploited

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