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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#611

Post by robertlagrant »

breather wrote: post #434
shuckles wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a perfectly reasonable argument on the merits. What user actually needs web apps? What's the market for apps whose developers can't stomach a $99 developer fee and/or with functionality not allowable by app review?

Well shit, what user needs an app store to begin with? It was never about need , it was about what they could convince users to put up with.

Why do you think an app store isn't something people want, rather than something they put up with? What about the pre-app store world made it the one preferred by consumers in your mind?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#612

Post by tie_ »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #351
dangus wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think PWAs are an outright failure and a technical solution looking for a problem. I don’t even know where to find one. For one thing, if Apple is complying with the EU’s alternative App Store and browser engine mandate, they’re even less useful than before. Why do I as a user want a PWA when I could have a native app?

I mean, the problem is the same one introduced since the two big mobile platforms were established: "I want to publish to IOS/Android as a native app without needing to have two separate builds to manage". PWAs make that pitch to those who already have websites to triple dip. It never has to promise to be as good as a native app, just "good enough". Does it live up to that? YMMV. It's probably fine for very simple ap…

The "two big mobile platforms" were not established by an irreversible act of God. Before the current time of two platforms, there was a time of (mostly-)one platform i.e. the Web, and that platform had quite a few nice features.

One of the small conveniences is indeed that you didn't need to develop the same thing twice, which made the barrier to entry much lower. The functionality that you were exposing to users did not need to pass a review at one of two US tech giant companies, which could reject publishing it for any or no sensible reason at all. You were not forced to pay 30% of your revenue to the gatekeepers of the platform. You were not banned to invite users to buy your product in any way that works for them, even if it meant sending you checks over carrier pigeons. There was no _chokepoints_ that a single company could squeeze to further its own interests (after the collapse of IE).

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#613

Post by Mindwipe »

Apple are being actively dishonest in their justification here.

If you work at Apple and are reading this, it's time to start asking serious questions about why your company is happy to lie to the public and lawmakers to try and juice their revenue.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#614

Post by sunshinerag »

sagarm wrote: post #325
ants_everywhere wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What you link is a case of one app (edge) reading the data of another app (chrome), which is entirely unrelated to PWAs. In one sense, sure. But in another sense Edge taking Chrome's tabs means Microsoft is getting insight into Google's data. A lot of Apple's defenses seem really targeted at reducing the ability of Microsoft, Google, and Meta to extract value from Apple's users. Apple sees the union of all the app…

After all, Apple users are the product. They even pay for the privilege!

Apple users are not products. That would be Google/chrome/android users

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#615

Post by jsnell »

xvector wrote: post #392
jsnell wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is not forcing Apple to do any work. Apple is choosing to do the work mostly to make competing browsers as limited and non-compelling as possible, while still hoping to stay within the letter of the law. They could in reality comply pretty much by removing their arbitrary restrictions. > It's a rational choice. Apple isn’t a charity, so why would they spend resources on extra work that they didn’t want to do i…

Telling a company they must implement an API is absolutely telling them to do work. And you're well within the right to refuse entirely.

Except they haven't told Apple to implement any APIs. They've told Apple to stop abusing their dominant market position and allow competing browser engines. Apple needs to do basically nothing to enable that, except to allow the same entitlements they already give Safari for other browsers, and to stop rejecting competing browsers in their policy and review.

(If you disagree, can you name one of the APIs you think the EC has told Apple to implement? Or name the APIs Apple was forced to implement to allow, because allowing competing browser engines would not have been at all possible without them?)

But that'd actually allow competition, and Apple seems to be very insecure about their ability to compete on a level playing field. I don't really understand why. Those 600 new APIs? They're 600 new restrictions.

I wouldn't say that Apple is well within their rights to break the law, and it's surprising to me that anyone would say so. But if they don't want to follow the laws, they are well within their rights to leave the market. (Now, there's of course no chance that Apple leaves the EU. After all, they still continue to operate in China and cooperating with the Chinese authorities, because they make a lot of money there.)

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#616

Post by Reason077 »

j16sdiz wrote: post #610
Dylan16807 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The charging speed of USB-C cables (C on both ends) is pretty much just the slow ones and the fast ones, and "slow" is 60 watts.

No. PD is optional in standard.

No, all compliant USB-C cables support 60W minimum (3A @ 20V). That is the minimum baseline for all USB-C cables.

Higher power levels beyond 60W are optional. The newest PD spec goes up to 240W (5A @ 48V).

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#617

Post by alex_suzuki »

chocoboaus2 wrote: post #260

Red rag to a bull The EU is going to absolutely see this as Apple spitting in its face.

You're counting on EU regulators understanding what a PWA is, and how it is a potential threat to Apple's walled garden. I think that's being optimistic.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#618

Post by sunshinerag »

addicted wrote: post #263
M4v3R wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to trust someone if you're using a computing device connected to the Internet. The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple, and then (supposedly) you can not trust anyone else. To many that's a very strong proposition.

Why can’t I choose to trust Apple for iOS and another developer for other functionality that runs on iOS? We do this all the time. I don’t uniquely depend on Microsoft for stuff that runs on Windows. Same for stuff that runs on macOS. And on Linux I’m not even sure who I’m trusting from the ground up other than a huge and disparate collection of people. So what makes iOS so unique that it can’t run PWAs, which is lit…

If you are not an Apple user not an Apple fan why do you care so much about Apple and its users?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#619

Post by sunshinerag »

trinsic2 wrote: post #329
M4v3R wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to trust someone if you're using a computing device connected to the Internet. The point of being in Apple ecosystem is that you trust Apple, and then (supposedly) you can not trust anyone else. To many that's a very strong proposition.

I'd rather trust a public (not-for-profit) institution that actually had a real incentive to protect user security. Instead we get for-profit companies that have a vested interest (conflict of interest) to do security the way it thinks it should be done. In my experience, that usually is bad for the people that are using the platform because there is no real surety that security is being done for the sake of the user…

Which public institutions do you find have real concern for their users? In which country?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#620

Post by sunshinerag »

summerlight wrote: post #142
chongli wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users trust Apple because Apple is ultimately accountable for security breaches on iOS devices. If a 3rd party app causes a data breach it does not matter if the breach was made possible by compliance with regulations like the DMA, Apple will still take the blame.

> Users trust Apple because Apple is ultimately accountable for security breaches on iOS devices. As a long time user of Windows which historically had an incomparably large amount of security incidents, I can assure you that Apple won't get blamed that much for 3rd party data breach unless it involves Apple's own service and user data.

I as an Apple user will blame Apple for design choices that lead to 3rd party breaches of my data and privacy.
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