Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#431

Post by breather » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:40 AM UTC

LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

This would be a lot easier to believe if they allowed you to stop apps from accessing the internet. As they don't, I simply don't buy any argument they make from a privacy or security perspective.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#432

Post by breather » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:41 AM UTC

luuurker wrote: post #64

lannisterstark wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could just not.

What's the benefit for you as a user to side with Apple on things like this?

There's little benefit to the user for many of Apple's design decisions; that seems like an odd way to predict their behavior.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#433

Post by breather » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:42 AM UTC

robertlagrant wrote: post #141

luuurker wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the benefit for you as a user to side with Apple on things like this?

> What's the benefit for you as a user to side with Apple on things like this? Looking at these things as sides is a mistake. Instead of just being tribal, it's better to look positions on their merits.

> it's better to look positions on their merits

How do you do this when any value a "merit" could have is based in this dichotomy of vendor/user?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#434

Post by breather » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:42 AM UTC

shuckles wrote: post #340

kibwen wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been asking these people for the merits of Apple's decisions for years, and all I ever get in response is "Apple knows best, I don't need these features."

That seems like a perfectly reasonable argument on the merits. What user actually needs web apps? What's the market for apps whose developers can't stomach a $99 developer fee and/or with functionality not allowable by app review?

Well shit, what user needs an app store to begin with? It was never about need, it was about what they could convince users to put up with.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#435

Post by system2 » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:43 AM UTC

Sounds like the web developers who depended only on PWA will have to learn Swift very quickly.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#436

Post by kristiandupont » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:45 AM UTC

dangus wrote: post #421

claytongulick wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've built large, complex and beautiful healthcare apps as a PWA. The only two things I've ever missed from native functionality are: - background geolocation - push notifications on ios The second one was fixed recently. In contrast, from what I've seen 90+ percent of apps I see in the app stores would be better as a web page / PWA.

But the real question is where most of your users live. I’d take a decent wager that most of your users are most familiar with apps and would prefer installing full apps. Doesn’t matter that most apps would be better suited to being a web page or PWA if that’s not where the users are. That’s kind of like saying that PCs are better at gaming than consoles. Yes, that’s true, but that’s not where the majority of users a…

>But the real question is where most of your users live.

Well, they "live" on their phone. I would just put a button on my website to install the app, users would find that easily.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#437

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:45 AM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #298

emgeee wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience even "a few extras privileges" can take many months to implement, especially for a company as large as Apple.

The EU gave them six months after being designated as a gatekeeper. The regulation already entered into force an additional ten months earlier, so Apple arguably could have already prepared for their likely designation. The real issue, however, is that Apple is not saying “we need more time to implement the APIs”, which the EU would very likely concede, but “we don’t think it’s worth it for us”.

[deleted]

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#438

Post by system2 » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:47 AM UTC

ttarr wrote: post #53

These kind of news make me feel happy that I'm Apple, Microsoft and Google* free. Phone is ungoogled Android.

Ironic that Android was mostly developed by Google.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#439

Post by kristiandupont » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:48 AM UTC

dangus wrote: post #343

shuckles wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the advocate retort is that lack of support on iOS makes them a nonstarter for developers on all platforms. I think this argument is more of an excuse.

Right, Android has something like 70% global marketshare. PWAs aren’t popular because they don’t really benefit developers/businesses. They also don’t offer any advantages in user experience over a native app. Apart from the economics, there’s no developer friction advantage since you can use something like react native and deploy anywhere. The kind of deep user information you can gather by installing a full blown a…

There is great value in building one product instead of three.

>The kind of deep user information you can gather by installing a full blown app compared to a more sandboxed web app is worth way more than the 30% royalty cut.

What kind of information is that?

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#440

Post by kristiandupont » Fri, Feb 16, 2024, 5:53 AM UTC

wokwokwok wrote: post #315

arghwhat wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't make sense. By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. PWA's only need a few extra integration privileges like badge- and window control, rest is just a web as usual. What you link is a case of one app (edge) reading the data of another app (chrome), which is entirely unrelated to PWAs.

> By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. Indeeed, and 'whatever browser engine you picked here' is responsible for correctly implementing these additional security features. That's the argument; if you write an app that lets you run other apps inside it how do we make sure your app does security correctly? When you look at it from that perspective, you can…

I don't see how this refutes GP's point. Yes, it's a big challenge but when they are allowing other browsers, the challenge is met already. The "install to home screen" feature adds but very minute extra features.