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Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

techcrunch.com

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Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#291

Post by Dalewyn »

arghwhat wrote: post #217
summerlight wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we trust Apple for security in that context? Apple also provides all those functionalities via their proprietary API, which is not even audit-able. If Apple really believes in that argument, they should disable their own API as well.

Well, while the argument is entirely bogus as "PWAs are unsafe" implies that loading web pages in that browser itself is unsafe and thus stopping PWAs but not loading pages is pointless, you do have to have full trust in Apple for security of your device as they are the sole provider for the core platform providing most of the security primitives used. That just doesn't exclude trusting others as well.

>implies that loading web pages in that browser itself is unsafe

Since when was loading web pages ever considered safe, at least by those who actually breathe computer?

It's frankly alarming how much trust we (must) give to Arbitrary, Remotely Executed Code(tm), especially given how many attack vectors are remote code executions.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#292

Post by NoPicklez »

sigmar wrote: post #17
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

tbh, I thought the summary in techcrunch was much easier to read and concise. >Browsers also could install web apps on the system without a user’s awareness and consent. Couldn't this be entirely solved with an OS permission-like prompt "are you sure you want [progressive web app name] added to home screen?"

Sounds like the type of dialogue message I got sick of in Android

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#293

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

mckn1ght wrote: post #285
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any fundamental correctness of their viewpoint is by virtue of them representing more people (EU citizens) than Apple's CEO represents (himself and, I guess, the Apple corporation, if you count that). On moral issues, the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint (if there is one) is, by definition, the one that more people say is the fundamentally "correct" viewpoint.

What you should be comparing is the percentage of the market the EU represents in the total market available to Apple. EU politicians are accountable to their population. Apple’s CEO is accountable to every Apple customer. The EU does not now, nor has it ever, constituted a majority of Apple revenue.

I don't believe the concept of a market has any fundamental place in morality, and my morality isn't limited to any particular "market".

Indeed, who apple is or isn't able to sell to, doesn't affect what people think is moral or immoral.

As for Apple's CEO representing Apple's customers: Are you sure? We didn't elect him. We just bought stuff made by an organization he currently runs.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#295

Post by almostnormal »

anon373839 wrote: post #196
Gigachad wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsers can still do that. It's more that PWAs look like entirely separate apps which the user would expect to be sandboxed. While a tab in a browser is clearly part of the browser app.

This is not a meaningful distinction. Users ALSO expect ordinary websites’ data to be sandboxed. Users trust that pornhub.com won’t be allowed to read data entered into irs.gov.

> Users trust that pornhub.com won’t be allowed to read data entered into irs.gov.

Likely, most are worried about the other direction.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#296

Post by oddevan »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

Since the article doesn't actually repeat what Apple has said, here's what Apple says: == Begin quote == The iOS system has traditionally provided support for Home Screen web apps by building directly on WebKit and its security architecture. That integration means Home Screen web apps are managed to align with the security and privacy model for native apps on iOS, including isolation of storage and enforcement of sys…

Feels like the same kind of malicious compliance with the rest of their DMA changes:

1. WebKit has access to special OS-level APIs that allow it to install and power web apps. 2. The DMA requires support for alternative browser engines with the same abilities as WebKit. 3. It is reasonable to assume this requirement extends to PWAs. 4. By taking away WebKit's ability to power PWAs, all browser engines are now on a level playing field.

_Could_ they have done it differently? Maybe, maybe not: software development always takes longer than you think, and throwing more engineers at a problem doesn't always make it go faster. Do I think they saw another chance to be petulant and took it? Yes.

So yeah, I'm disappointed, but no more here than with the rest of Apple's DMA response.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#297

Post by crossroadsguy »

andix wrote: post #250
toyg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're desperately hoping that their fanbois will howl so much, that MEPs will relent.

Even the biggest fanboys will understand it's Apples fault. The laws apply to all the manufacturers and just Apple "thinks differently".

Then you don’t know Apple fanboys. If Apple releases an automatically installing iOS patch that bricks everyone’s iPhones (including theirs) unless they agree to subscribe to a Hardware Maintenance Plan™ of 19.99 USD per month, the first reaction from fanboys would be “Was waiting for Apple to do something like this. This is how it is supposed to work. It took them so long. Good on them getting rid of non-serious iOS users”. And this chorus will come long before Apple had to say anything on the matter in a press release or so.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#298

Post by layer8 »

emgeee wrote: post #243
arghwhat wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't make sense. By that logic, I shouldn't be allowed to load web pages because it's impossible to secure a browser. PWA's only need a few extra integration privileges like badge- and window control, rest is just a web as usual. What you link is a case of one app (edge) reading the data of another app (chrome), which is entirely unrelated to PWAs.

In my experience even "a few extras privileges" can take many months to implement, especially for a company as large as Apple.

The EU gave them six months after being designated as a gatekeeper. The regulation already entered into force an additional ten months earlier, so Apple arguably could have already prepared for their likely designation.

The real issue, however, is that Apple is not saying “we need more time to implement the APIs”, which the EU would very likely concede, but “we don’t think it’s worth it for us”.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#299

Post by smoldesu »

lannisterstark wrote: post #48
kryptiskt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this isn't a parlor game, I have no idea why they think the antitrust pressure will abate by such bad faith nonsense moves. Next step for the EU is to make Tim Cook choose whether he wants to be CEO of the device side or service side of the broken up Apple. It's clear that fining them is useless.

Ah yeah man EU is totally gonna break up apple. Some of y'all need to be reminded to be realistic.

The US might. Microsoft narrowly avoided a company breakup over web browser policies, it seems entirely feasible that Apple's App Store could lead down the same path.

Re: Apple confirms it's breaking iPhone web apps in the EU on purpose

#300

Post by almostnormal »

Symbiote wrote: post #259
leifross wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel you, I am the sole developer of https://ember.ly Certainly feels great to have your livelyhood kicked to the curb by some rich american megacorporation throwing a tantrum. The worst part is that probably 40 percent of the development time has been trying to wrangle my way around weird rendering quirks in safari, never again. My next site will have a banner suggesting safari users open the site in firefox..

As a Norwegian / Norwegian company, is there even any politician you can write to?

Ask the users to return their broken phones, demand a full refund, and buy an android instead.
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