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Goodbye Auth0

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Re: Goodbye Auth0

#181

Post by azinman2 »

artyom wrote: post #135
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

Because losing your job is really a bummer everywhere, but in Europe you've got a lot of things covered by the welfare state (how well, it's a different discussion), so it's less stressful, which reduces the probability of people being really pissed . In the US, you're probably out of healthcare in the blink of an eye, may have no severance, no coverage, no unemployment benefits, and in some cases it'd mean deportati…

Cobra enables continued healthcare, many states have unemployment benefits, and I believe in all cases (?) you have some number of days to get a new visa sponsor.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#182

Post by johnnyAghands »

buro9 wrote: post #36

This bit at the end: > and learned an enormous amount about what it means to build and run a people-first company Seems at odds with this bit at the beginning: > And then it happened, I got the email. Slack didn't work. My laptop restarted and came back with accounts missing. It really, actually happened. And even though the writing seemed to be on the wall, I was still caught a bit off guard. This industry (not spec…

> and learned an enormous amount about what it means to build and run a people-first company

He's talking about Auth0.

> And then it happened, I got the email. Slack didn't work. My laptop restarted and came back with accounts missing. It really, actually happened. And even though the writing seemed to be on the wall, I was still caught a bit off guard.

Talking about how that culture no longer existed -- it's fully Okta now. The Auth0 culture essentially erroded until it finally just no longer existed. This of course happened at a different pace across differnt organizations. Unfortunately, I'd say ours was probably one of the earliest to get hit.

---

As an aside, I was part of same team (also laid off), and had an especially unique viewpoint.

I joined Auth0 in 2020 -- months before the acquisition. I joined because of the culture and the amazing people I get to work with and learn from. I had a lot of fun and we built some amazing things. After about 18 months I decided to join a local startup, itching to get back to a much smaller arena, building something from the ground up. Applying all the great things I've learned in my career thus far. Long story short, as most starups go, especially during COVID, it didn't pan out.

I kept in touch with my old colleagues, now my friends, who approached me with a potential new opportunity. They did warn me things were different now, but I was excited to get to work with great people again.

Coming back it was starkly different. Gone was the magic that was once there. A lot of familiar faces were still around, but so too were a lot gone now. I can feel the beating of the Okta drums more loudly now.. there just felt a lot of separation between leadership and us dreamers at the bottom. I felt like I was just back at a corporate company now, more worried about writing OKRs and how they made my boss/division look good verses actually making our customers lives better. There was a constant dread in the air.. verses excitement.

It's strange, but in some ways its almost like a feeling of mourning. That meme about not knowing when you're in the good old days is very true. Goodbye Auth0 <3

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#183

Post by dylan604 »

Draiken wrote: post #118
sokoloff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my second job, the company terminated an employee for poor performance and intended to let them stay on a short term to wrap things up and then start their severance. The first evening (or maybe the first Friday evening), that dev stayed late in the office and deleted the source trees from as many machines as he could get access to (this was 1996, so most machines didn't have logins) and wiped the hard drive on th…

So because the company hired a criminal sociopath, every other person laid off until the end of times must be treated the same way? Certainly there are better ways to handle even this crazy scenario you mentioned. That feels so inhumane to me. If you don't see your employees as humans, instead as mere resources and, as soon as they are laid off, threats, then we can say it makes sense.

You don't have to be a sociopath or a criminal to be able to do harm to a company. There are some positions where clients loyal to the person rather than the company like sales or some form of producer/manager depending on the industry.

There are stories of sales teams going in and grabbing their rolodex (instantly dating the stories) so they could use the contacts where ever they land next. They could also reach out to the contacts to attempt to poison them towards the company, libel be damned.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#184

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

azinman2 wrote: post #181
artyom wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because losing your job is really a bummer everywhere, but in Europe you've got a lot of things covered by the welfare state (how well, it's a different discussion), so it's less stressful, which reduces the probability of people being really pissed . In the US, you're probably out of healthcare in the blink of an eye, may have no severance, no coverage, no unemployment benefits, and in some cases it'd mean deportati…

Cobra enables continued healthcare, many states have unemployment benefits, and I believe in all cases (?) you have some number of days to get a new visa sponsor.

Paying one's own insurance when you don't know how long you'll have no income is outrageously expensive. Last time I changed jobs I just went without because the COBRA offering was so expensive.

I have no clue how unemployment works. I don't think I've ever paid into it?

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#185

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

briffle wrote: post #167
panick21_ wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tying healthcare to employment is a uniquely stupid idea.

I'd be fine with getting money for healthcare from my employer (especially if it was in a special pre-tax account, like a 401k that I could then use to purchase healthcare), but my being tied to whatever 2-3 plan options the head of HR and company president were wined and dined for seems a little crazy to me.

401ks are also dumb. Just set the IRA cap higher. Why do I need a whole bureaucratic system to decide I'm worthy of 18k of tax shelter instead of 6k?

Or get rid of tax shelters. Everyone I know who's broke is too broke to be buying stocks anyway. I can afford some tax.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#186

Post by evantbyrne »

edent wrote: post #2

Join a Union. The bitter truth is your employer has a lot more lawyers than you do. For all the talk about how well-compensated and in-demand tech workers are, the reality is usually different. You need someone in your corner to help you fight for your rights. If you're a tech worker in the UK, you can get three months free membership at https://prospect.org.uk/join/

How does joining a union prevent someone from being laid off after a merger? Unions have their place, but I'm skeptical that someone–especially a presumably high-paid employee–could collectively bargain their way out of a planned post-merger mass firing.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#187

Post by michaelcampbell »

madsbuch wrote: post #92
sokoloff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my second job, the company terminated an employee for poor performance and intended to let them stay on a short term to wrap things up and then start their severance. The first evening (or maybe the first Friday evening), that dev stayed late in the office and deleted the source trees from as many machines as he could get access to (this was 1996, so most machines didn't have logins) and wiped the hard drive on th…

Given that this is the US, he was probably sued and is still in prison. Also, this is an insanely childish way to act – again to the original commenter. It it seems like there is a difference in US an EU culture here.

> Also, this is an insanely childish way to act – again to the original commenter. It it seems like there is a difference in US an EU culture here.

It is, but safety protocols are put in for the extreme unexpected case. "Regulations are written in blood" and all that.

Not all Americans are childish any more than no EU citizens are.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#188

Post by cmiles74 »

azinman2 wrote: post #181
artyom wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because losing your job is really a bummer everywhere, but in Europe you've got a lot of things covered by the welfare state (how well, it's a different discussion), so it's less stressful, which reduces the probability of people being really pissed . In the US, you're probably out of healthcare in the blink of an eye, may have no severance, no coverage, no unemployment benefits, and in some cases it'd mean deportati…

Cobra enables continued healthcare, many states have unemployment benefits, and I believe in all cases (?) you have some number of days to get a new visa sponsor.

You need to have some serious savings to pay out the monthly cost of COBRA. The last time I was in this position, it was ~$1,800/month to cover my family.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#189

Post by karmajunkie »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #184
azinman2 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cobra enables continued healthcare, many states have unemployment benefits, and I believe in all cases (?) you have some number of days to get a new visa sponsor.

Paying one's own insurance when you don't know how long you'll have no income is outrageously expensive. Last time I changed jobs I just went without because the COBRA offering was so expensive. I have no clue how unemployment works. I don't think I've ever paid into it?

if you’ve worked a w2 job in the US you’ve paid into it indirectly —your employer pays it on your behalf.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#190

Post by Technetium »

azinman2 wrote: post #181
artyom wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because losing your job is really a bummer everywhere, but in Europe you've got a lot of things covered by the welfare state (how well, it's a different discussion), so it's less stressful, which reduces the probability of people being really pissed . In the US, you're probably out of healthcare in the blink of an eye, may have no severance, no coverage, no unemployment benefits, and in some cases it'd mean deportati…

Cobra enables continued healthcare, many states have unemployment benefits, and I believe in all cases (?) you have some number of days to get a new visa sponsor.

Looks like you never actually had to pay for COBRA out of pocket. It's not financially feasible for the large majority of people, especially those who didn't have to pay out of pocket for their coverage previously. A single person can be ~$800USD, and if you want to cover dependents in your family, at least double it.
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